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Congrats to Gottfried...

  • TexasTide21 said...

    and NC State for advancing to the Sweet Sixteen, but I'm still very happy and excited about Coach Anthony Grant. He has my upmost support and I hope he has yours as well. Given time and patience, he will do great things for The University of Alabama, RTR!

    I agree with everything but would add that just because CMG has NCSU in the sweet sixteen doesn't mean a mistake was made when we fired him. The program had slipped terribly under him despite an elite 8 run in 2004. He inherited a lot of talent at NCSU. that team can play with anyone athletically and I knew they were going to make a run when I saw them on the floor with UNC in the ACC tourny. Having said that I think the question is why are they having to make this run as an 11 seed. That team should not be an 11.

    Our team was lucky ot get a 9 seed. We aren't that talented.

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    Thehit86

  • IvoryTusk said...

    I don't support him I hate people attacking and acting like he caused Ron harm when every single person on the medical staff cleared him. Coaches have to rely on a medical staff, it's not their job to judge medical issues as well it shouldn't be. I will attack arguments that are flawed logically if they don't make sense. What's wrong in actually stating facts. If Ron was mistreated medically then he would had a case against UA but even Steeles family felt so confident in that medical staff that they allowed their other son to play for them. The same people that cleared Ron sit on CAG's bench and they would never allow a kid harm, or allow a coach to harm a kid by playing him. They all missed the diagnosis because it was extremely tough. Even Dr. Andrews missed it.

    Look, I don't have one clue what happened with Ron Steele and his knees. Having said that just because a medical staff clears him does a coach have final say over if he plays or not? Medically, I might know someone is "cleared" to play. Morally and intellectually if the kid is telling me he is in legitimate, serious pain I sit him anyway. Ron Steele doesn't strike me as a kid to fabricate the pain or embellish.

    For example, I played minor league baseball with the Philadelphia Phillies. One year I had minor pain in my elbow, I lost extension and it just felt really tight. My velocity dropped from 90-94 range to 84-88. I went to the local team doctor. He examined me and did X rays yaddy ya. His diagnosis was bones spurs. Simple enough. Take a cortisone shot and as long as I could handle the pain I could finish the season and have suregery after because with bone spurs there is no further damage I could do to the elbow.

    First start back after the cortisone shot I pitched fine but was asked after I came out how I felt. I was honest and said it felt better but there was still a little pain. The manager shut me down on the spot for the rest of the season. I was asked who I wanted to perform the surgery? I said well since I am 90 miles from Healthsouth I'll go to Dr Andrews. Long story short he does his own evaluation and determines I don't have bone spurs but a partially torn Ulnar Collateral Ligament in my elbow. It did not need surgery at that point and i was able to rehab it. If my manager hadn't shut me down there is no doubt in my mind it tears completely before the end of the season and I have tommy John surgery. that's a 12-18 month rehab. The manager's prompt, intelligent decision saved my ass a lot of pain in the short and long term.

    I obviously didn't make it but I am forever grateful to him. So pardon me but just because the docs clear a player doesn't relieve CMG of his responsibility to the player. I'm not saying it's his faul but being medically cleared to play hardly relieves him of the responsibility.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Thehit86 on 3/19/2012 at 11:41 AM

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    Thehit86

  • Bamalaw74 said...

    Mark disgraced himself and embarrassed (at the least) his alma mater/employer. He was so distracted by his off the court distractions that he did a poor job and let the program slide . He was fired, which was both logical and proper. I really could not care less about his success or lack thereof at NCSt and am astounded that the topic is of so much interest to Bama fans.

    It's the former player effect. Somehow the fact someone played here and did reasonably well as a player clouds 99% of this board's ability to logically, intelligently, judge the same former player's tenure as a head coach.

    I don't have a huge issue with CMG. Having said that I don't think he is about to dominate the ACC at NCSU because nothing in his past tells me he will. However, there is a certain segment of the board that thinks just because you don't prop them up as something they weren't that you can't give credit or you want to disparage them in some way.

    This effect is much stronger with CMS.

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    Thehit86

  • IvoryTusk said...

    Because I don't feel the lazy argument is true, and it's inherently illogical. Lazy implies that he stopped going to practice, showed up to work late, didn't show up at meetings, etc. I feel that there are thousands of small factors that lead to success and failure, and just saying he was lazy doesn't make sense. Most people who get to Million dollar salaries in life are generally not lazy.

    I have always felt that people never look at factors that do affect teams. It's not lazy if you still have the same gameplan, and have the same practice plan, but it is a bad coaching decision if you evaluate assistant coaches and make bad hires. There were 2-3 assistant hires that were very poor that led to problems on the staff. Notable Eugene Harris, etc. I don't attribute that to being lazy just being a poor evaluator of coaching talent at that time. Same thing can be said for recruiting misses. I think the one recruit in the end that was extremely overvalued was Pickett. We had several major misses at the PG position that led to problems on the team, and I also felt that he did not correctly evaluate Torrance as he pushed him more as a SG and should have had him at PG all the time (Note he later corrected that mistake in a situation at NCSU were he correctly moved Lorenzo Brown to PG from SG starting this year). We also had several injury factors that played into that 3 year span as well. Losing Chuck Davis was huge, but also Steele's knee injuries directly led to many losses after the NCAA tourney run. I think he also had evaluated some guys as leaders who turned out to not be suited for the role and this effected the team as well.

    I could go on and on, but I get passionate because I don't like people saying he was lazy or complacent because it really paints a poor picture of what can happen to a team and what factors lead to winning or losing. Painting in broad strokes is never good in my mind, so if I see a general statement I attack it, unless it's backed up with facts and takes a look at lots of factors.

    Lazy in this case is a relative term. The guy getting paid 7 figures is expected to do things the guy getting paid 60K isn't ...would you agree? He didn't get the job done. that isn't hating that is fact. Same with Shula...that guy was awful as the HC...plain and simple. He didn't know who top recruits in mobile were by the recruits account of events.Yet people wonder why he doesn't get a pass from me on the job he did as coach. Sanctions or not that guy was AWFUL. lol.

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    Thehit86

  • IvoryTusk said...

    Actually found out new info tonight. Turns out coach knew Ron was injured. Ron told the medical staff he couldn't play. But an evil coach told the medical staff to shut up or they will get fired. He even told dr. Andrews to fudge the examination so he could get away with it. Yeah that is what must have happened.

    Fact is not one medical staff in the country, especially one that has dr. Andrews consulting on the case would allow a kid to play if they thought he was being injured by it. If that were true then the medical staff would be fired, but I haven't heard you once bash them. But the guy with no medical experience, yeah he is the one to blame.

    Maybe it was a conspiracy because Dr. Andrews is actually the team physician for Auburn and not the good guys.

    Dr. Andrews does surgeries on our players, but he isn't our team physician. So, maybe he is secretly trying to ruin our players' physical health?! stir

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