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Gottfried made the tourney in three of his first seven seasons, too. At this point, that's the only fair basis of comparison.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by PBob 13 months ago
ok the problem is that while Gottfried will coach his talented kids he recruits below what they should be, Grant will never have enough talent consistantly to achieve what Gotfried's teams were able to do because Grant is an average recruiter and to be honest a below average evalator of talent.
That's what some don't understand, Grant will never have enough talent to sniff a sweet sixteen.
I"m sorry, was trying to give u an upvote.
Why are you an angry person? Can you not give an opinion without speaking down to someone? It's easy to watch Bama play and suggest we have bad talent but I don't think that's true. Also, I can handle Bama losing to UF or Ole Miss but please tell me you think we have less talent than Mercer, Tulane, Dayton, or Auburn? Please tell me that our talent is so bad that we should be losing by 20 to VCU? We scored 37 points at AU. Pathetic doesn't even describe that.
So again, I do not see how you think talent is holding Grant's teams back. So Gottfriwd's teams didn't always play tough defense, I don't ever remember being completely embarrassed like I was when we put up just 37 points. I was sorta glad we didn't get in because I didn't want my team to be public ally humiliated by while struggling to break 50 points against a quality opponent.
Cannot speak for you but I was completely embarrassed by our numerous 25+ point losses in the road, and our early exits in the NCAA s to the likes of UWM and Kent St
since when is losing in the 2nd ncaa game an early exit(Kent State)? Being one and done is an early exit (UWM).
in Gotfried's 5 ncaa trips at bama, he made it past the 1st game more than he didn't
This post was edited by robert1975 13 months ago
Honestly, I don't understand why so many Grant supporters have to try and trash Gottfried instead of making a positive case for Grant. Well on second thought, I'm pretty sure why the pro Grant side has to try and trash Gottfried, Grant doesn't have much positive in his own record to make an argument with.
First weekend is an early exit in most programs with real aspirations.
Btw, you're barking up the wrong tree. I was a huge Gottfried fan. Just responding to the prior post that the Gottfried era had its own embarrassing moments. Particularly the road abortions
It was disappointing to be upset in the 2nd round of the tourney but it does not even come close to level of embarrassment from watching my team fail to score 40 points against one of the worst teams in the SEC and an arch rival. Not even close. Honestly, I would love to be in a position of being disappointed because my team was upset in the tourney. Now I have to watch us struggle to put away Northeastern in front of 3,000 fans in Coleman during an NIT game.
I'm not going to sit here and say Gottfried is some great coach...i think his teams were mentally soft most of the time, turned the ball over too much, and didn't give enough effort on defense. That said, the guy has had WAY more success than the guy currently coaching our team and it's not even close. Please don't say it's only the talent...I just outlined our failures against lesser teams this season. It's time Grant started producing and it's time Bama fans get over the Gottfried departure.
Completely agree with this, and I'd even go so far as to say that many of CMG's teams relied on guys who were short in the "talent" department.
Some of our best teams got serious minutes out of players like Emmett Thomas, Evan Brock, Demetrius Smith, Pettway (a walk-on,) Reggie Rambo, Jermareo Davidson (who was as goofy and uncoordinated a player as I can remember when he arrived), etc.
It's not like CMG had 5-stars 1-13 every year on the roster. But he actually developed mediocre players into decent contributors and surrounded one or two above average guys with those role players.
He always had one or two really good guys like Mo, Shelton, Winston, Grizzard, Steele, Hendrix, Gee, etc. And he developed his big men like Dudley, Davis, and others.
Let's stop acting like CMG had world-class recruiting classes and just rolled the ball out. He signed a few really great players and a bunch of filler that got better. It's flat out wrong to act like his players didn't get better under him.
This post was edited by NashTide 13 months ago
Look people, you cannot compare Grant and Gottfried.
I will say this though about Gottfried. Yes, he won an SEC title. I was there in the arena when we won it. But I also remember struggling against FAU then getting THROTTLED by Kent State in the 2nd round. That was typical of Gottfried. His teams simply didn't play the same away from Coleman Coliseum. We had a good run to the Elite Eight, but it took 2 small miracles for it to happen. Pettway had to hit a shot with less than 5 seconds left to Southern Illinois and then we played like T total sh** for 30 minutes against Stanford but somehow came back to win that game. We blew the doors off Syracuse, which was easily CMG's best win.
Gottfried's tenure breaks down like this..
2 really good regular seasons(2002 and 2005)
1 really good NCAA tourney run(2004)
1 really good NIT run(2001)
Every other season sucked. And really, I don't look back on the 2 really good regular seasons fondly because we sh** the bed in March. Both of those teams should been Sweet Sixteen teams if not Elite Eight teams. That's CMG's downfall right there. When expectations are placed on him, he fails too often.
then I apologize
We would've almost certainly made a Final Four in the 2004 run if we'd been in any region other than UConn's.
2001-2002 was one of the best seasons in the history of Bama basketball.
2006 was a good year, too, and we were drawing iron on a Ronald Steele 3 away from upsetting UCLA and advancing to a Sweet 16 after whipping Marquette.
He also got us to #1.
His first couple years sucked and his last couple years sucked...but the run in between is one of the finest runs we've had in our history. That may be more an indictment against our history than a compliment of CMG, but damn...we won an SEC reg season title, got to #1, made an Elite 8, made an SEC Tourney final, earned a #2 seed in the Dance.
As Bama basketball goes, I'd almost challenge you to find a better era. Wimp had some good teams but never got past the third game in the Dance. He won a few SEC titles, but did it with MUCH better talent than CMG had.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by NashTide 13 months ago
But we got lucky and had Stanford as our #1 seed. Stanford was overrated. Much like Gonzaga this year.
We were lucky to have Felix go nuts on Marquette though and we most certainly did not whip them. We won by 4 or 5 points.
'02 was fun, but remember we finished the year going 7-5 over our final 12 games. Once we got to 20-3, we had peaked.
No prob. I was a member of the first marks madness crew. I hurried back to ttown from work/school in BHAM every game night to stand Kb the student section in a suit. Lol. The good times were very good. I defended him for a long time.
That's in part why I became so bitter with him.
Really disappointing how he pi$$Ed it all away in the final years.
No reason for him to become what he did.
I don't think lucky is being fair to that elight 8 squad. That team had 5 legit 3 point shooters, it had a ton of firepower on it. So much that pettway was the one left open for the winning 3 point shot in round 1 because we flooded the floor with 3 point shooters. Contrast that with our current team, where we only have 2 legit 3 point shooters in Lacy and Releford.
As for the Stanford game, I agree they were an overrated 1 seed, but they would have been a legit #2 or 3 seed, so it's not like they were trash. And we gutted out that game against standford while having our worst 3 point shooting game of that season. It really was a testament to how hard and well we were moving the ball on offense that we stayed in it and won it in the end when our 3s starting falling in the last few minutes. People talk about the syracuse win in the sweet 16, but I always was so proud of the team for gutting it out against standford. They could have easily rolled over and just said it's just not our day, but they fought through it.
It really was to bad we ran into Uconn in the elight 8, we gave Uconn the exact same corner 3 on D that Duke did in the semi final, just in our game Uconn was something like 6 of 7 from that corner, while they only hit one from that corner against Duke. That Uconn team that year was just a monster. I really thought we could have won gave any of the other elight 8 teams that year a great game.
So that's better than when Wimp won the SEC 4 of 5 years with 3 sweet 16s? By "challenging," you must mean "being old enough to remember a coach prior to David Hobbs."
Lets compare CM, Wimp and Gott...
SEC win percentage:
Both Wimp and Gott coached 11 years. CM coached 12. Wimp made 10 NCAA tourneys, while Gott made 5. CM had to win the conference to go in his era, and he still made three. Even David Hobbs (3/6 =50%) made the tourney more often than Gott (5/11 = 45%). Wimp averaged 22 wins per year with a 69% win percentage, while Gott averaged 19 per at 62%.
Couple of comments:
I wasn't saying CMG >>>> Wimp. I was saying the 5-year run CMG had in the middle of his tenure was among the best we've ever had. And it is. CMG won 27 games in a season - something CM never did and was only bested by Wimp once (28 wins in 86-87.)
Also - some creative math above as you credit Wimp with 6 SEC titles. He was money in the conference tournament, but only won the league regular season title once - the same as CMG.
Additionally. comparing CM/Wimp/CMG eras is tough because a) there were fewer teams in the NCAA tourney until 1985 so you could make a case that while it was tougher to make the tournament, it wasn't as difficult to advance because there were fewer games. There was FAR more parity in the 2000's in cbb than in the 1970's and 1980s, just like there is more parity now than there was 20 years ago.
The SEC was also deeper during the CMG era than it was when Wimp was coaching. MSU sucked prior to the mid-90s. Florida wasn't anywhere near where it has been under Donovan (they made a FF under Kruger IIRC but they weren't consistently dominant). He didn't have to deal with Arkansas until the tail end of his career. It was a deeper and more talented league in the late 90s/early 00's.
Again - CMG reached superlatives that Wimp and CM never did. Multiple milestones, actually. You can bury your head in the sand and ignore that or not. I don't really care.
Also - people refer to CMG as being a "scummy dirtbag" and somehow use certain rumors against him. I loved the Wimp era. I love Wimp. But let's not pretend like he was some saint.
Wimp had female issues within the athletic department right? That's what I'm always told about him. Something about a secretary?
I've intentionally left CMG's personal life out of my posts. You can probably google his latest escapades at NCSU if you're interested. Wimp also had flaws. I'm focusing on the court.
Wimp won 6 SEC titles because he won 5 SEC tourneys in 11 years. Gott won zero, even during his five-year run. All of Wimp's Sweet 16 runs came in a 64-team field.
In five years, Wimp won four SEC tourney titles plus one regular season title. He made three Sweet 16's those same years.
I loved Gottfried as a player, and I enjoyed his high times as coach. I lived on the west coast when we beat Stanford, so that was especially nice. But he really sucked at the end, and I don't think he lasts three more years at NCSU. I'm baffled by people who seem to want him back.
ETA: In CM's era, he played 27.8 games per season, including the postseason. Of course he never won 27+ games. I think he is the best coach in our history.
This post was edited by PBob 13 months ago
David Hobbs only had two tourney teams, not 3.
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