In partnership with CBSSports.com
Online Now 1581
Online now 1555 Record: 9097 (3/2/2012)
The No. 1 'Bama fan community on the Internet
BOL message board for off-topic posts
Tailgating, recipes, cooking, food & drink
Buy, sell or swap tickets
You have no favorite boards.
The most viewed topics.
The most replied to topics.
The most up-voted topics.
The most down-voted topics.
The most up-voted posters.
The most down-voted posters.
The most followed posters.
We can debate his pro career but to pick apart his college career doesn't make sense. He did everything a player can possibly do. Spin it if u want.
It's totally asinine to try and downplay the success of Tebow's college career. It shows a lack of respect for a worthy opponent, and a disregard for the great college players of history who never excelled in the NFL to include many Heisman trophy winners, All-Americans and SEC first team selections among them. Just let it go in jumping on the "bash TT" wagon--let that be a NFL thing without dragging it into the CFB discussion. JMHO.
This is the problem when discussing football with people who just make things up. Some people just refuse to actually look at the stats and real info. But why let things like facts get in the way when you can just make stuff up.
When you compare Tebows Heisman season with Newtons, Tebow beats Newton in every category but rushing yards. But according to 4shizzle, Newton put up better numbers. Absolutely not true. Not only did Tebow have a better completion percentage, he had more yards passing, more rushing tds, more passing tds and fewer ints.
So not only are Newtons numbers not better, they really aren't that close. Tebow also did that much more than Newton while playing less games.
Funny thing is college coaches who played against this guy every week mentioned him as being one of college footballs best, but we have a poster on this site that really knows football who says that Tebow was just a good college player.
Anyone think he might ever play another position like TE or something? Obviously a great athlete who is bigger than your average QB
+1 I will add that some people either develope strange forms of amnesia or just don't pay attention.
You can't really believe that Tebow is a better player than Cam Newton on any level can you? And to the poster above Pat White was one game away from WV playing for the crytal. You got me Tebow had better stats...He also had Percy Harvin and several other studs to deliver the ball to while Cam was delivering the ball to the likes of Darwin Adams. Tebow aslo had a pretty stout defense wouldnt ye say. In Tebows heisman season how many losses did Florida have? Tebow was a really good college player but he is not Cam Newton. You said once in a lifetime player and Tebow is not that by any stretch of the imagination. Had Cam stayed at Florida they don't miss a beat after Tebow leaves hell they may have been better an Urban still employed
Tebow is a great kid and good player but once in a lifetime not even close.
Vick, Steve Young, Cunningham, Tarkenton, Cam, McNair, Moon, Flutie, Rothlisburger? Some of these weren't pure runners but got the job done when they had to. I would most closely relate him to Randall Cunningham as both are good runners with less than accurate arms.
Add mcnabb , he ran option at Syracuse and developed into a pocket passer as his career went on. His feet were his friend for sure.
I didn't say he was better. I was addressing your inaccurate statement that Newton had better stats. If you want to say Newton is better, that is fine. But his numbers were not better. I just want people that are going to argue points to at least do so while telling the truth and not skew things to fit their point. You can't really believe that is asking too much can you?
Tebow was better than a really good college qb. Was he a once in a lifetime player? Not in my opinion, but have heard former players and college coaches who know twice as much about football as I do say this very thing.
Tebows D when he won the Heisman was not as good as Cams the year he won the Heisman. They gave up over 25 points a game, whereas Newtons team gave up 24 points a game. So no, I do not think that was a stout D. Again, we aren't dealing in real facts, just making statements to fit our argument.
The one position I believe the Gators had the advantage over the Cam Newton AU team is at WR. But that is it. UF had absolutely no running game and had to use a WR there who ended up getting hurt b/c of it. AU had better personnel at the other spots. Lets not act like however that AU did not have some talent catching the ball. Adams and Zachery are both currently in the NFL. Blake will be drafted and play in the NFL and Lutz will play in the NFL. So, Newton was throwing the ball to 4 guys that made and NFL roster.
I would have also taken the line Newton had over Tebows line every day of the week. Newtons line was dominated by juniors and seniors with multiple years of starting. Tebow had freshman starting on the line he played behind in his Heisman year.
If you disagree, that is fine. But at least do so while stating accurate statements. Not statements that are misinformed to fit your argument. Got to be honest though, anyone putting Pat White in this discussion isn't going to get a lot of respect from me when it pertains to football knowledge.
Carlton Medder RS senior, Drew Miller Senior, Markice Pouncey Freshmen, Jim Tarrt RS junior, Jason Watkins RS Junior was the Gators starting offensive line in Tebow's Heisman season. He had 1 freshmen starting offensive lineman. I went to the gators roster and looked at their biographies. So to insinuate that Auburn's O-line was way more experienced than UF's isn't really that accurate. One reason they had a freshmen start was b/c they had a junior injured and miss the entire season. Mike Pouncey freshman played mostly defensive line in 2007 due to injuries on that side of the ball.
Carl Johnson played a lot that year along with Maurkice Pouncey. Watkins also had very little experience before that year. So they have 2/5 of their OL that did not have experience, and Johnson played a lot when guys were banged up. Compare that to AU and their experience and IMO AU had much more. Without looking up anything (I'll let you do that) I would bet Ziemba and Pugh alone had more experience than the whole UF OL going into that season.
I also do not recall saying AU was way more experienced, just that their OL was better. I also know why Pouncey and Johnson played alot, injuries. That still doesn't take away from the fact that they did play.
System QB at Florida. Different in NFL. He will either have to change positions (TE H-back) or be waived at some point. Most NFL teams don't use zone read plays in their scheme.
You stated - "I would have also taken the line Newton had over Tebows line every day of the week. Newtons line was dominated by juniors and seniors with multiple years of starting. Tebow had freshman starting on the line he played behind in his Heisman year. " This tells anyone who can read beyond a 6th grade level that Auburn's line was better due to experience. Well your argument doesn't hold water. Tebow had 4 O-linemen that were extremely experienced in 2007. Yes Carl Johnson played, but he didn't start and only had about 35 plays that year. You said people were making false statements without researching the facts, yet you didn't seem to do your homework when making your statements either. This is official facts about 4 of UF's starting linemen.
"Carlton Medder "27 consecutive starts between his junior and senior campaigns at the right tackle position…" was a senior in 2007
Drew Miller- " Has played in 39 games with 31 starts… Along with Phil Trautwein, became only the 13th and 14th true freshman offensive linemen to play on opening day and the first since Randy Hand in 2002. " Senior in 2007
Jim Tarrt- " Played in 37 games, with 33 starts at left guard in his career at UF…His total of 33 career starts were the highest among any active member of the team throughout his tenure…2007: … All-SEC Second Team (Coaches’)…A 2008 preseason candidate for the Outland Trophy" was a junior in 2007.
Jason Watkins- "Started all 13 games at left tackle in 2007 & saw action in 53 games, including 29 starts (27 at left tackle and two at tight end) "
Having Percy Harvin didn't hurt either. Tebow suffers from being over-hyped. He was a good college QB. We tried very hard to get him.
I said they were more experienced. Not way more experienced as you stated I said. They only had 3 guys with significant experience heading into the year.
Watkins had 2 total starts in his career going into the 07 year. The fact he started every game his jun and sen year did not make him experienced going into the 07 season. So I will say it again, Watkins and Pouncey were not experienced heading into the 07 season. Hard for me to consider Cyrus K having experience going into the 2012 season b/c I know he is going to be starting in 2012 and 2013.
Also, during your research you forgot to mention the other freshman OL that started that year like Maurice Hurt and Maurkice Gilbert. I don't know what the stats or snaps show but I watched nearly every game that year and Carl Johnson was their 6th OL. He was even their extra tackle on goaline and short yardage situations.
So to sum up for 07. 3 freshman started that year with Pouncey, Hurt, and Gilbert. Johnson saw meaningful time in critical situations. Watkins also had only a couple starts coming into the year. So in reality, 3 of their starters had quality experience.
Or like I said earlier, 2/5 did not have experience.
We must disagree on what you call "extremely experienced." 2 total starts doesn't make a guy extremely experienced IMO. Nor does 4 Freshman who have never played in a college game labed as experienced in my book either.
This post was edited by cwaters2 20 months ago
I took the time to look it up so that I would have a little better idea of "exact" numbers for what I witnessed on a regular basis that season. Combined Tartt, Meddler, Miller, and Watkins had a total of 46 career starts. In comparison, Ziemba had 38 starts alone heading into the 2010 season. AU probably had times the starting experience going into that year.
I'll say it again, I'll take AU's oline every day of the week because they had 4 starters returning with alot of experience vs 3 guys with one year of experience and two other starters who had very little (and 4 other freshman who saw significant playing time).
247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports