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The state of the Basketball Program

  • I support this position. I mean most great coaches lose to a bottom 250 RPI team at home and lose 4-5 games with only one coming against a top 50 opponent.

    I actually blame Gottfried. Because we lost all of his players to graduation or leaving we are now left with Grants recruits who only regress. Gottfried should have made sure that Grant would have good players in year 4. I won't start blaming Grant till year 7 at least :/

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  • RTR 65

    I haven't read the whole thread but to all the "You need to support the program" crowd, Outside of UK in the SEC you have to win to get attendance and support in Bball. It has always been this way. Like in field of dreams; "If you build it they will come". Well if you build a winner in Bball the fans will come. Its that simple.

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  • New arena- Auburn built a new arena, didn't help.
    Fans & students- If you win, fans will come
    Fire & desire- If you can't inspire your players by whatever means, then you don't need to be coaching.

    Bama's athletic admin. has got to do one thing to make our program respectable. Hire a coach with a dynamic personality. PERIOD! You can look at 2 examples that have both been mentioned in this thread. 1) Wimp Sanderson (We painted our basketball floor to match his jackets (the plaid palace) 2) Bruce Pearl- Tennesse was very average or below in basketball until they hired this charismatic individual.

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  • RTR 65

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  • Auburn is NOT Alabama...comparing apples to dog shit...Alabama needs to show a commitment to winning. We do it in football. We sucked for the most part before Coach Saban arrived. Florida gave Billy Donovan a show of public support by pouring resources into the program. The results are undeniable.

    Unfortunately, we were a terrible program by the time that Coach Grant arrived. Coach Gottfried left the program bare...under developed talent, no future to sell to potential recruits because of the issues surrounding his departure and administrative malaise because of his leadership or lack thereof. Our basketball program was sort of like Auburn's football program when Tuberville left. Coach Gottfreid quit building the program a couple of years before he unceremoniously left. Coach Tuberville gave up and stopped competing and recruiting against Coach Saban and the other elite SEC teams 2 years before he packed his bags.

    Therefore, we need to win games simultaneously, while the fan support needs to grow and continue to be PRO-Alabama, regardless of the wins or losses. The fans let the administration know what their expectations are by filling the seats. However, when it comes to recruiting elite talent, the fans show it by sticking by their team through thick and thin AND by demanding that the Athletic Department and Coaches commit to building a highly successful winning basketball program.

    I agree that the Coach is ultimately responsible for the results of his players, no matter what the cause. BUT, the lack of fire and pride is the responsibility of EACH player. The Coach is the one that's responsible for signing players that possess this characteristic OR for instilling it through player development.

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  • I don't buy this.

    A great Coach could turn it around.

    i.e. James Franklin with Vanderbilt's football program.

    You could put Coach Saban at any school in the country- he would get players. You could put a guy like Calipari at any school in the country- he would get players.

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  • If you remember When Wendell Hudson was hired, Dawn Staley was interviewing for the Job and wanted it bad. She had done a great job at Temple. She has since been hired at South Carolina and has turned that program around making the sweet 16 last season & now is off to a 11-1 start.

    Why we didn't hire a coach who was aformer All American, 3 time gold medal winner, WNBA Champion, and a Coach that had turned around a program. Seems like a slam dunk hire to me. I think we would be in a position to be a Sweet 16 team like South Carolina is now.

    As far as coach Grant, I think he is a great defensive coach. But his offensive philosophy is down right ridiculous. We are a slow it down stagnant offensive team.

    We have not recruited well outside of one year and all those kids were instate gets. Our Post player recruiting has been atrocious. Jacobs is the only true Post player that we have recruited, and he has very limited skills outside of a turn around hook shot over his right shoulder.

    We need to recruit 3 pure post players over the next two recruiting classes, in 13 & 14. We have Taylor but we need a legit 6'10" + power post player. That way we can play the 4 wing players that Grant likes.

    We have no shot blocking, no deterrent at the rim, and no player that can draw a double team on his own in the post.

    I think when Steele gets back he should be in the post on every possession.

  • Take your Crimson Glasses off for a second.... Although I agree that BAMA has had more basketball success than Auburn, it is quite illogical to think that they can't win just b/c they are Auburn. They have had pockets of success with very good teams (Barkley, Persons (2), ,etc...). Despite what you think , just because you build a new arena, doesn't mean a program will automatically improve. You correlate Auburn under Tubberville to Bama under Gottfried. Yet you scoff at me bringing up Auburn's new arena. Look at Auburn football now. They hired the wrong coach and they are a shell of themselves. Auburn fans and beat writers cried "We're young" & "Tubberville left us with nothing!" for the last 2 years and steadily watched their program decline. You are sounding a lot like them. "Gottfried left the program bare". However, don't listen to me, listen to yourself. And I quote, " the coaching staff sucks at developing players and scheming. " Developing players and scheming are 2 of the 3 biggest things a coaching staff has to do to build a winning team (Recruiting being the 3rd). You are saying Coach Grant and staff suck at 75% of their jobs! Think about that for a minute.

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  • This is similar to what I posted last year. Although I think we hired another coach when Staley interviewed not Hudson. BAMA doesn't have much Women's basketball pedigree other than some success under Moody. Why wouldn't we hire someone from a successful program like UCONN? Especially a young enrgetic coach like Staley.

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  • I stand by what I said. Coach Grant did become a slouch of a coach overnight or after his arrival at Alabama. He was successful at Florida with the MAJOR responsibilities he was given. He was successful with 2- and 3-STAR talent at VCU. However, the times have changed and YOUNG basketball talent has grown, alongside the way to recruit these players.

    I am certain that the coaches on the staff are good at what they know. However, it is what they do NOT know and what the team is lacking that calls for major upgrades. Coach Grant is winning here but inconsistently. However, the personnel and resources to win consistently are NOT in place. Some of these things he controls; others, he does not. I've known AU all of my life. The one constant is that when they are winning at ANYTHING, CHEATING PROBABLY PLAYED A FACTOR. Plus, AU has had some good players in basketball, but they are nowhere near us historically in basketball. Before Arkansas joined the SEC and UF won two NCAA Championships, ALABAMA was the 2nd best basketball program in the history of the SEC.

    I love AU's new arena. But, they are NOT Alabama. Unlike football, the state of ALA cannot sustain more than 1 major basketball program. When AU was really competitive, they got 1 or 2 good players from AL. BUT, the rest were from Georgia and Florida. They built relationships and pipeline to a couple of really good areas in those states.

    I do believe the coaching staff under Coach Grant sucks to high heaven. But, that can be changed. He just needs to make the decision. I am glad that he will weather this storm this year. Because, next season he will have the bodies he needs to really compete. Furthermore, the 2nd year players will be 3rd year players. The 2 signees this year and one post player we have now will allow him to play basketball the way he wants. It will quit those that are hoping he will just go away.

    I am not satisfied with the results BUT, I know that given the time to develop this program, he will succeed. We CANNOT continue to change coaches BECAUSE fans/alumni like you think that the next best thing is the new flavor of the month.

    AND WE SHOULD BUILD A NEW BASKETBALL ARENA...the administration must SHOW public support. Other sports will benefit too!!! High school basketball players across the southeastern region will take notice.

    Coach Saban sucked after his 7-6 record too. BUT, we did not give up or 2nd guess him. I want to see Coach Grant make the tough choices with regards to how he administrates his program and his system. His philosophy is sound, but his process is lacking something in the way of execution.

  • Let me focus on the Coach Saban statement. Coach Saban didn't suck after his 7-6 record in 2007. He had a national title and several winning seasons at LSU as the Head Coach to his resume'. 2007 was his 1st season @ BAMA, where Grant is in his 4th. Saban's 2nd season at BAMA, we were ranked number 1 going into the SEC Championship game after signing the number 1 recruiting class. So to compare the 2, is not the best argument.

    The administration has shown public support. They are paying Grant close to $2Million/year! You keep talking about a new arena, but ARK has a very nice arena yet since Nolan Richardson left they have stuggled. Why? B/c they have made bad hires @ head coach. I'm not saying that Grant is a bad basketball coach, but he doesn't seem to be the right fit @ BAMA. I used Bruce Pearl as an example of a type of Coach that BAMA needs. Tenn has the 2nd largest Bball arena in the SEC, but struggled though several coaches that had success at other programs. Enter Pearl, a dynamic personality that brought attention to TENN basketball b/c of his willingness to promote his program doing radio interviews, TV intersiews, and several " antics" that got him TV time. Grant's stoic personality doesn't seem to be doing any of this for BAMA. Now I don't want Grant to go shirtless in the student section at a football game like Pearl did @ a Tenn women's bball game, but he needs to do something different than what he is currently doing.

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  • Agreed
    His personality is dull at best
    Unless a coach is an incredible coach, see Saban, with a rich tradition, see Saban, a personality is required to promote your program. Basketball requires much more personality than other sports because the games are more intimate.
    He seems like a great guy but just can't get over the hump.

  • rolBAMAballs

  • BoomsMD is dead on (except i dont feel the assistants are awful). The people on here that don't understand that fan support plays a major role in success are just crazy. What makes UA a great football school? The beaches and nightlife in Tuscaloosa? The glamor of being in Tuscaloosa? Umm no its the history of success that has built tremendous fan support. Filling stadiums for practice, having big crowds during down years. It's all hear for success.

    Is the lack of a crowd an excuse for losing to Mercer? No. But it is a very good reason as to why the program hits the skids this time in December every year. There is no passion or support of the basketball program. That's why it's easier now to win at a place like VCU than Alabama because their students and fans are into basketball right now and not football. Same with Kentucky, UNC, Duke and on and on. The real only exception to this is Big10 basketball. Ohio St and Michigan fans are better at supporting their team in Nov/Dec than we are.

    I really wish the NCAA would look at moving the basketball season back 2 months and running Jan- May. It would help the overall product across the country and TV deals, etc. Bama basketball wouldn't have to compete against Bama football.

    In the meantime....a new gym would be nice but not necessary IMO. The Coleman facelift has made it in the upper half of SEC schools.

    We need general admission seating until SEC season starts. We need to move season ticket holders to the non-camera side of the gym. I'm about tired of arguing for students because they don't really show either but during SEC play move them to the side the TV faces. Much like Duke and Michigan do.

    At this point Bama basketball is not at a place where we can right off a coach because of a bad start to a season. Even in year 4. I still think he's a good coach and the product will get better later this year when the crowds decide to come.

    This post was edited by Tide2477 16 months ago

  • For the crowd that says "just win and the crowds will come" are not looking at the facts. It is true that if we win the fans will come in mid-January and February but not November and December and that's where we are now.

    Last year we had a good start to the season coming off a NIT Finals appearance and the first few SEC games were duds for crowds.

    Fact: our crowds only come out in force for Auburn, Kentucky (or another basketball name like Georgetown), and the very end of the season like last 2 or 3 games IF we are really good.

    Our crowds don't come for Nov/Dec games, early SEC games, and any SEC team having a bad year not named AU.

  • Theta

    I haven't really posted about the program since the VCU loss and I didn't even watch the Mercer game since I was at a family member's house who had DirecTV with no full court.

    1. The energy in the program is gone. It was zapped out when all of the internal issues came out and people started to question the program's direction. Fans loved Tony Mitchell, but there he was suspended and not playing. Killed the energy of the program as he was a fan favorite due to his explosive play.

    2. The state of Alabama is lacking post players. There usually was a solid post player in-state every cycle. Lately, there hasn't been. Walter Sharpe, Demarcus Cousins, Erwin Dudley, Chuck Davis, D.J. White, etc were all Alabama kids. Granted, we whiffed on half, but I'm guessing Grant would have gotten Sharpe and White. I don't know what the hell Gottfried did to D.J. but Grant wouldn't let a Tuscaloosa kid leave for a mediocre Indiana(at the time obviously..)

    3. Grant isn't a bad person but he portrays that image when he's not promoting the program. He should be more accessible until the wins start piling up. UAB's coach is better than him at marketing his team. If nobody knows there's a game, how will they attend? I think Gottfried's biggest coup was the fanbase. He was brilliant at getting the fanbase excited for games. Atmospheres at those home games were insane. I'll never forget the games against Ohio State, Florida, Kentucky, Miss State, and LSU. Mark's Madness was always full and Grant seemingly doesn't care about the student section. Offer some free food to the students and they'll come.

    4. Coleman Coliseum looks great from the outside, but it is a dump on the inside. Stuck in the 80's that place is. Seats are too far from the court and that God awful roof eats sound and looks moldy. Give the gymnastics team the Coliseum and go build an arena that seats about 11,000 somewhere else on campus. I've long thought baseball and basketball need to be away from BDS in their own area by the river. Football stadiums benefit from being in the middle of it all, baseball/basketball arenas/fields benefit from scenery.

    Really, that's all I have. I wouldn't care if we fired Grant right now, but I wouldn't be upset if he got 1 more year. Word is that Shannon Hale has turned into a legitimate scoring threat and Jimmie Taylor will provide much needed help in the post. I don't see anyone going pro off this team so there is some hope for next season assuming no injuries to non-walk ons.

    Twitter: @ProducerAP