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After reading the board for most of the basketball season, it appears most folks think it takes at least 5 years to develop a hoops program. On the other hand, most people judge a football coach by years 3 & 4. So, what is it that makes hoops take longer?
It's doesn't take longer if you have a few things in place for a quick turnaround...
Recruiting starts a lot earlier in basketball. You better have kids wrapped up as juniors or you are way behind. This pretty much sums up why Coach Grant's first two recruiting classes were what they were.
You can swing and miss on a few kids in football and not feel the affect. You can't in basketball. Pretty much every scholarship kid has to bring something to the table. 85 scholarships in football gives you room to take risks. 13 basketball scholarships gives you virtually no leeway. Injuries hurt more in basketball also because if this.
Also two routes in basketball. Go the Juco route or build ground up. Grant chose the later. That takes time with no true scoreres.
You have to know who you are. You can judge a bball coach at Kentucky/UNC/Kansas in his first couple of years. You can get program changing recruits in year one there that are basically NBA ready. At Alabama you have to evaluate/develop 4 yr guys. We are not going to go out and snag Andrew Wiggins, John Wall, or Anthony Davis. As much as I wish we would, it's just not going to happen barring some sort of crazy circumstance. That's why any bball coach hired here should have time. In football, we can go get Trent, Tj, Julio, Cyrus, Landon Collins, Ha Ha, Dre, Milliner, Ro, etc. We are the biggest of the big boys. We just aren't in basketball. We don't have the history, NBA track record, or even the facilities (IMO) to attract the McDonald All Americas year in and year out. My 2 cents
This post was edited by wesleygullett 13 months ago
There are some good points being made. But, even bama football needed the right coach in place to get the top recruits. Remember how few nfl draft picks we had in the shula years? Also, I saw bruce pearl turn ut into a top program in less than 5 years. Ut and bama hoops are comparable. I guess what bothers me is that it seems bama has a low standard for hoops and I dont think we should ever lower the standard for any activity.
Agree. Just a lot of excuses as always.
Exactly. My philosophy since I have "matured" as a sports fan has been to
contribute as much energy to being a fan as the ownership or leadership
is exhibiting towards being excellent. While we were basically spinning our wheels
in football with people like Price and Shula, I was not as "into it" and bothered by the
losses as I am currently. Another example would be women's basketball. The administration
doesn't appear to give two flips about winning in that sport, so my only interest is hoping
for enough losses to force a coaching change. That might sound screwed up to some, but
As for basketball, if we were truly serious about being competitive, a new arena would have been built instead of slapping a bunch of lipstick on a dying pig. Heck, even da barn realized they needed to get with it. Doesn't guarantee success, but it at least shows recruits that a
commitment is being made. What does UA really have to sell in basketball, besides a championship football team? I just don't see a true commitment being made in sports like baseball and basketball at Alabama. I may be overly optimistic, but maybe a business-minded guy like Battle will bring a change in thinking to the table. With the revenue the AD brings in, we should be able to compete in EVERY sport on campus.
Didn't catch that this was another fire grant, grant is horrible, he is not for bama, thread... my bad.
True. But I might be in the minority here but I like to think of it like this. Could Calipari win with our players? Could Boeheim win with our players? Could Brad Stevens? How about Coach K? Or what about a guy like Enfield or Dunphy? What about Izzo or Matta?
Now ask yourself the hardest question, could CAG win with players from Duke, SYR, OSU, Butler, FGCU, Marq etc etc.
I'm a bball nut and when I see us play all I wish for them is to spend just 2 weeks with a guy like Coach Knight. (G)
“Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift of God, which is why we call it the present.”
That's not my direction at all. Admittedly, I am not a hoops expert. I actually like cag. Just looking at why there is such a long list of informed posters saying more time is required for the hoops program to show progress while I know patience would not be displayed if this were football. While the smaller roster means misses are more difficult to handle, doesnt it work the other way as well where 1 great player can really put the program on center stage? I understand many think coleman is a dump, but it is nicer now than when wimp recruited, and he was able to bring in talent.
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Agree,,, but where did Coach Wimp's talent come from? For the most part, Alabama and Mississippi..
Do you know how many players from Alabama and Mississippi are ranked in the top 100 basketball recruits this year,,,1, Jimmy Taylor. And last year it was 2,,, Devonte Pollard and Craig Sword...
In 2011, there were 8, Bama sgned 3 of them, to go with "supposedly" a top 5 juco player (even though he was hurt the first year at Bama).
"I know patience would not be displayed if this were football" - we are in a talent rich area for football, where football is king. And Bama football being the football version of UK basketball. And as posted claimed yesterday, Bama has been the basketball version of Louisville football... even in Coach Wimp days.
On difference, coach strong has major ties to Miami area, and you can easily convince a kid to leave Miami to live in Louisville. Not as easy to sell or convince a basketball player to leave new york, virginia, NC, Indy, Ohio, etc.. to live in Alabama...
Thanks for the recruiting info. I am not that educated on it. Does sound like we have gotten our share lately. But, it also sounds like Bama needs to extend its recruiting base. Also sounds like the State of Alabama needs to do more to promote HS hoops.
my guess is tha it is a precentages thing... fewer players and scholarships in basketball vs Football
if you miss with a scholarship in football it is a 1 out of 85 or a 1.176% effect
whereas with basketball if you miss with one scholarship offer that is a 1 out of 13 or a 7.692% effect
so it has a 6 times bigger impact on the program and i my mind then it should take at least 6 times as long given all other cirmcumstances are equivalent
This post was edited by threemil 13 months ago
You make a good point on misses, but the other side of that works in your favor: 1 major recruit has a much larger impact on a hoops team.
If we were to use the % angle, then 6x longer for hoops translates to 18-24 years. Obviously, that is not the case. So, what is a good time range to make a fair judgement for hoops?
It doesn't. In fact it should take much less time in BBALL.
It's an excuse that the locals drummed up to buy CAG more grace period.
It's the average Bama fan's attitude and perception toward bama basketball that affects their view of how long it should take to build the program. In basketball, theoretically at least, it should take less time. The right guy can do it in 2 years no doubt in my opinion. But those guys are few and far between and they have to be at the right place too.
Alabama isn't a place you build a basketball winner in two years if by winner you mean NCAA championships. However, if you mean 25 wins and NCAA tournies? Alabama is a place you can do that at in two years.
This post was edited by Thehit86 13 months ago
To Bruce Pearl... I think he is an effective coach. I would never want him at Bama, but he does have a track record of success.
That said, the guy was lucky enough to inherit perhaps the best shooter in college basketball history and have him for three seasons.
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