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It isn't the system though. I've heard Saban say guys like Kevin Steele were as ready to be a HC as anyone he had ever been around but the fact is he couldn't coach defense at Clemson and failed miserably as a HC at ....can't recall the school. But my point is you don't know who can do it necessarily until they get in the position. That's if you are hiring an assistant. Best to go through the proven ranks. Right now, I just don't want to think about losing Saban haha.
It's not ONLY the system, I would agree. But the system we run is unquestionably the most consistently successful system out there. And Kirby has been with CNS for what... 7-8 years now. And he seems to have a similar mindset and approach as CNS... probably a lot has rubbed off. He is a phenomenal recruiter, knows how to develop players, understands and executes that D with near perfection, is a really intelligent guy and seems to have the drive and tools to get it done. With a little more experience and mentoring, I think he could be the best option to step in when CNS retires and keep it going.
Absolutely not! That is the stupidest idea anyone ever came up with. I can't possibly see any good at all from ever naming any head coach in waiting. What does it really do?
It's like being engaged to be engaged. Or some chick telling some dude, "you'll be my next boyfriend when I break up with my current one. Whenever that is."
Couldn't feel stronger about it.
Maybe you haven't witnessed the unmitigated disaster that was Dubose and Shula. And if you look around, Miami promoted twice from within and Coker was bad and then people said "Hey Randy Shannon has been a Cane thru and thru! He played for Jimmy Johnson, hes coached under Erickson and Butch Davis! He'll be great! And Randy Shannon destroyed their program. And now a PROVEN head coach is cleaning it up and doing great with what he has to work with. how's Derek Dooley doing?? Heck! He had to be good, because he worked right under Saban!! Haha... See what we mean.
It's not that an unproven asst coach can't become good or in alabama terms can't become great... It's that the percentages just aren't worth the risk.
If you think about the jobs he has turned down, and the yearly salary bumps, it seems to be the current succession plan. Not rocket science, no source, just common sense. No interview with UT, ARKY thats been confirmed. Turned down KY for an interview. Its either our succession plan or he is waiting on GA/Clemson/FSU. He's picky and should be at 36. Plenty of time. Id say his mentor is weighing in as well.
Look, Nick Saban is the best coach in college football and will definitely be in the discussions for best of all time if we beat Notre Dame. He controls every aspect of the football program.... and yes Kirby is wonderful running the defense (with Saban looking over his shoulder) and is a great recruiter... but one would be crazy to think Kirby would "keep it going" when Saban retires. No way we would take a risk hiring a coach with no head coaching experience when we could easily hire another big time coach.
Regardless if whether he replaces Saban or not, it would be nice to keep him at DC as long as Saban is here. Naming him DC just elevates his name even more for other teams after a HC.
Think about Muschamp. If he wasn't given the title at Texas I wouldn't be sure he would be the HC at Florida right now. Maybe.....but maybe not. Either way I am sure Texas would have liked to have kept him around a little longer to evaluate the situation.
"Don't confuse association, with something we both really like." ---JB
I don't understand all the posters who say...'we've got to have a 'proven head coach'. Why?
Because of Dubose and Shula? Give me a break.
Have you not noticed a FEW changes in the Alabama Program since then? Kirby's been with Saban from the get-go at Bama.
This logic makes no sense.
You bring up Derek Dooley. He was a head coach. At La Tech. You think that Better Prepared him to be a head coach? Oh it certainly looked that way in his Train Wreck 3 years at UT.
I do not want anyone as a Coach in Waiting.
But if Saban left anytime soon, Smart would be the one I would call first and offer the job.
He knows how Saban runs the program- from top to bottom.
I guess I will agree to disagree.
Oh, and, I'm sure there are plenty of examples where "Proven Head Coaches" were brought in and Succeeded or Failed. (Butch Davis at Unc?/Neuheisel at ucla-just off top of my head)
I'm sure there are plenty of examples of Assistants who took over as head coach and succeeded or failed.
But consider Will Muschamp and James Franklin as 2. Never head coach before. They're doing pretty well in the SEC.
Mark Richt has had a pretty good run (as much as we like to make fun of him).
Sorry, I just don't understand the logic of saying "I would only hire a proven head coach'.
With Kirby, circumstances are very different IMO.
Because it hasn't worked for others doesn't mean it wouldn't work if Saban was the guy making it happen. Being closed-minded about anything that Saban wants to accomplish is foolish.
What you are not understanding is that Alabama is not a damn training ground for somebody that people like you and other THINKS will be a good head coach! We have been there and I pray we never go back, nothing against CKS, but we need a proven head coach. We were lucky to have gotten CNS when we did, however that was the first time in my life time that we did what we should of done after Coach Bryants death. Curry, Dubose, Shula, all bad hires! Curry was the only one who had been a head coach, and my least favorite by far. Coaches like Saban dont come along very often, but we can hire a coac that know what he is doing and win a lot of games. If we lost CKS next year, I promise Saban will hire some one and somebody will want him to be the coach in waiting. You say it's totally different than Dubose, you are right, Dubose had four national championship rings, at least ten SEC rings, played and coached under Bryant, played under Ken Donahue, worked with Bill Oliver Jeff Rouzie,ect.... Yes it is a different situation, but I for one hope we never go down that road again!
I have asked this question before, what is a proven head coach. To the we need a proven head coach crowd, can I see a list? Because there is no gaurantee they will be successful at UA, for every asst. Failure there is a proven head coach failure.
I'll agree to disagree.
Hate that title but don't really have a problem with the idea of it
hell no! Doesnt usually turn out well.
Because he has "been around Saban" is not enough. Rick Neuheisel a "proven head coach". That is LAUGHABLE. We are Alabama. We can go get the BEST head coach available.
Gomer Jones was the assistant to Bud Wilkinson for 17 years at Oklahoma. He coached numerous all-Americans as his right-hand man. He only lasted 2 seasons when he replaced Wilkinson.
Mike Dubose was supposed to be the 2nd coming of Bear, and he was a great assistant under Stallings. What a flop!
Ray Goff was Vince Dooley's offensive coordinator for years and flopped when he replaced Dooley.
Bennie Oosterbaan took over from Fritz Crisler at Michigan and was a huge disappointment.
I could go on and on and on.
Haven't we learned our lesson????????? It takes too long to recover from a coaching hire mistake!
U raise his salary dumbass! To 2 to 3 million and with a buyout....that would weed out the bullshitters.
That is what needs to happen to keep KIrby here. If we want him to be the next HC. If not, leave as it may but I'd prefer raising his salary and buyout and position so not many could touch him!
We have the money, so spend it!
Best case scenario is for Kirby to leave for a non-SEC head coaching gig where he can prove he is as good a HC as he is DC.
Its real simple, a proven heasd coach as I see it for BAMA is a coach that Wins no matter where he is at and no matter the cicumstanses!
Bryant Kentucky, Spurrier Duke, Saban MSt,ect... There are plenty of examples. Good coaches win anywhere they coach, and every one cannot have one of these coaches but we can! We are Alabama and shouldnt have to settle for unproven Asst!
Lets go back to the original question... do you want Kirby to be the head coach in waiting or let things just play out....easy answer...just everyone relax and let things play out. Why burden a good guy like Kirby with a ridiculous head coach in waiting title and put him above everyone else on staff but CS...great way to screw up team chemistry...see Texas or FL State. CS runs this program and everyone in it and never think for a minute he doesn't control what his coaches do or don't do...sure he lets them run their team responsibilities but their success is directly contributed to his process and never forget that. The problem as I see it with the ridiculous title of Head Coach In Waiting is you put invisible barriers up like when will the current coach retire and when does junior take over...what a load of crap, it's like wanting the best of both worlds at the same time...and we all know that never happens. Enjoy what CS has brought to our proud program and stop worrying about how much longer he will coach or what happens to successful assistants...don't put negative energy in the process...just let this wonderful process play out and enjoy the positive energy it creates!
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