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  • BGZATUA said...

    You're kidding right? Eblen was brought in because we needed a point guard. He wasn't a luxury recruit by any means. We needed a point and when you take a job in late March, your recruiting options are extremely limited. He took a point that was on his way to VCU.

    Eblen's freshman year the only other PG's on the squad were Torrance and Brock and they were both seniors. Luckily, we were able to pick up Releford and he was good enough to log significant minutes as a point guard.

    Eblen was a last second pick up. And that should have been a warning sign? You want to evaluate Grant's ability to evaluate, recruit, and manage roster spots on the last second Ben Eblen pickup? .

    yeah cause Eblen logged so many productive minutes as PG his freshmen year. He averaged 7.6 minutes per game, and less than 1 ASSIST AND 1 PPG his freshman year. Eblen was awful all 3 years he played here and was a total waste of a scholarship.

    The real point is why was Eblen ever recruited by Grant to play for VCU? Grant was going to sign him regardless if he was HC at VCU or Bama, that's the real point. Grant thought Eblen had what it took to begin with while HC at VCU. It's not like Grant got to Bama and then rushed and just signed a trash PG because he had to. Grant was already going to sign Eblen at VCU and just further recruited him to come to Bama instead after Grant got the Bama job.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by robert1975 on 3/6/2013 at 1:32 PM

    Ben Eblen Stats - Alabama Crimson Tide - College Basketball

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    robert1975

  • TeddyBama24 said...

    If you were a Florida fan in the mid 90s, you would have called for Billy Donovan's head too after 2 LOSING season in 4 years. We aren't talking just not making the tournament, we are talking losing more than you win. Grant hasn't even had one season that low. I do realize that many people on this board don't realize that 4 years in football recruiting and coaching is not the equivalent to 4 years of basketball recruiting and coaching, but I'm tired of hearing a fan base so utterly ignorant about what it takes to nurture a successful basketball program for the long-term. Grant is doing things the right way and is making very cerebral decisions with his program. Our fan base might not understand every decsion, but he has made a lot of excellent decisions that many coaches wouldn't have the balls to make that need to be made.

    You keep blathering on about "If you were a Florida fan..." then you'd want Donovan fired after having had "2 LOSING season in 4 years" back in the 1990s.

    In 1996-97, UF was 13-17 (Donovan's first year). In his second year, they went 14-15 and went to the NIT. The next nine years of records for UF (culminating in back-to-back championships):

    98-99: 22-9
    99-00: 29-8
    00-01: 24-7
    01-02: 22-9
    02-03: 25-8
    03-04: 20-11
    04-05: 24-8
    05-06: 33-6
    06-07: 33-5

    So, yes, it was techinically "2 out of 4" losing seasons, but really, it was two in a row, his FIRST two, and I doubt there would have been any Bama fans calling for CAG's firing if he had started like Donovan did. FYI, in Donovan's third year, UF lost in the Sweet Sixteen, and in his fourth year, UF lost in the championship game.

    So stop comparing CAG to Donovan in any way whatsoever, because it's not even close.

    LegalAcidity

  • One of my biggest concerns with grant is his development of the players. We need some help in this area.

    rsfields31 ●

  • crimsonbleeder said...

    Is this English???

    It's actually Mandiran Chinese, congrats on being able to read it.

    UofADuke ●

  • I expect a good seed and a win in the tournament next year.

    Anything less, fire him. I understand giving1 more year to avoid backlash of being a dead end job.

    Just have to wonder...do you really think he changes to an uptempo offense to maximize the potential we have ?

    Twitter: @ProducerAP

    Theta ●

  • LegalAcidity said...

    You keep blathering on about "If you were a Florida fan..." then you'd want Donovan fired after having had "2 LOSING season in 4 years" back in the 1990s.

    In 1996-97, UF was 13-17 (Donovan's first year). In his second year, they went 14-15 and went to the NIT. The next nine years of records for UF (culminating in back-to-back championships):

    98-99: 22-9
    99-00: 29-8
    00-01: 24-7
    01-02: 22-9
    02-03: 25-8
    03-04: 20-11
    04-05: 24-8
    05-06: 33-6
    06-07: 33-5

    So, yes, it was techinically "2 out of 4" losing seasons, but really, it was two in a row, his FIRST two, and I doubt there would have been any Bama fans calling for CAG's firing if he had started like Donovan did. FYI, in Donovan's third year, UF lost in the Sweet Sixteen, and in his fourth year, UF lost in the championship game.

    So stop comparing CAG to Donovan in any way whatsoever, because it's not even close.

    BOOOOOM Sunshine Pumpers!!

    UofADuke ●

  • robert1975 said...

    yeah cause Eblen logged so many product minutes as PG his freshmen year. He averaged 7.6 minutes per game, and less than 1 ASSIST AND 1 PPG his freshman year. Eblen was awful all 3 years he played here and was a total waste of a scholarship.

    The real point is why was Eblen ever recruited by Grant to play for VCU? Grant was going to sign him regardless if he was HC at VCU or Bama, that's the real point. Grant thought Eblen had what it took to begin with while HC at VCU. It's not like Grant got to Bama and then rushed and just signed a trash PG because he had to. Grant was already going to sign Eblen at VCU and just further recruited him to come to Bama instead after Grant got the Bama job.

    The waste of a scholarship played in 37 games his sophmore year. He was a desperation pick up due to a void left by the outgoing coach. PG was as big of a need back then as big men are today. Grant's second PG signing was Releford - the best PG we've had since Ron.

    BGZATUA ●

  • TeddyBama24 said...

    First of all, Nick Saban ripping a side judge will never have the consequence of giving the other team points. In basketball, it does, so don't be an idiot. I don't know if you can read lips, but I have plenty of examples from this year where Anthony Grant looks right at an official and tells him a previous call was bulls*&^.

    I appreciate you are a fan of our team and will travel to Oxford to see them play, but you really aren't contributing anything intelligent. If you don't think Grant hasn't called up the SEC and complained about officiating, then you don't understand how things are done. My advice: instead of hitting the "we shoud fire our head coach" button when we go through badly needed growing pains, sit back and try to look at our program objectively and see that our basketball program and image needs a turn around that is going to take more than 4 years to accomplish. Anthony Grant (though still has some improvements to make) is right on track,

    It's reassuring to know you feel like I'm not contributing anything intelligent. Really.

    Seeing how you're the authority, I'll just patiently wait until you deem it acceptable to evaluate this program's progress.

    BTW - by my count only Stallings, Donovan and Kennedy have been on the job longer than CAG. Kennedy is on the verge of losing his job and if Stallings slips again next year he'll be on the hot seat the following season. So please spare us all the BS about acclimation. Virtually everyone else in the league has faced as much adversity or more than our coach, save UK and UF.

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    NashTide

  • TeddyBama24 said...

    First of all, Nick Saban ripping a side judge will never have the consequence of giving the other team points. In basketball, it does, so don't be an idiot. I don't know if you can read lips, but I have plenty of examples from this year where Anthony Grant looks right at an official and tells him a previous call was bulls*&^.

    I appreciate you are a fan of our team and will travel to Oxford to see them play, but you really aren't contributing anything intelligent. If you don't think Grant hasn't called up the SEC and complained about officiating, then you don't understand how things are done. My advice: instead of hitting the "we shoud fire our head coach" button when we go through badly needed growing pains, sit back and try to look at our program objectively and see that our basketball program and image needs a turn around that is going to take more than 4 years to accomplish. Anthony Grant (though still has some improvements to make) is right on track,

    His program is right on track to the NIT.

    This post was edited by UofADuke on 3/6/2013 at 2:00 PM

    UofADuke ●

  • TeddyBama24 said...

    Comparing these two situations is the best example of why our fan base is delusional. Alabama football was arguably still the most prestigious program at the time of firing Shula. Alabama basketball isn't anywhere close to being considered a traditional power. We can become like Florida, but it's going to take some patience and maturity from our fan base and administration.

    Did you really say we were a prestigious school when Shula was fired?

    UofADuke ●

  • bfixinto said...

    Teddy, I agree 100% with what you said. I don't post very often on this board. But several times I have had to come on hear And post something about Coach Grant. I coached high school And JC basketball for over 30 years. I am not sure why this team does not have more post players on the roster or why they don't shoot the basketball better. I do know this, Anthony Grant is a Hell of a basketball coach. I also know, that in todays College basketball, to build a program the right way takes TIME. Coach Grant is doing it the right way. We are all very proud of the way our Football program is run. We need to be just as proud of the way Coach Grant is running this program. I truly believe, in time, with Coach Grants leadership, this program will be a top 15 program.

    Thank you! If our fan base and administration wants to win in 4 years after our program had been missing from the NCAA tournament since 2006 (we made it last year people) by any means necessary, then I want no part of that discussion. This whole Coach Cal did it in 3 years talk is ridiculous. Coach Cal is a cheater, tells kids that he will send them back to the ghetto when they perform poorly, and is coaching at one of the most prestigious college basketball programs in the nation. We can't just go anywhere and pull a top recruit. There are mid majors that have a better name in college basketball than Alabama. It is going to take constant success over a 10-15 period of time to build a brand that we can sell to top recruits around the nation (like Billy Donovan has done). Firing a coach who is right on track in year 4 will send our Basketball program back two decades, and we will not replace him with anybody close to as good (unless you want a cheater, which is quite common in college basketball).

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    TeddyBama24

  • BGZATUA said...

    The waste of a scholarship played in 37 games his sophmore year. He was a desperation pick up due to a void left by the outgoing coach. PG was as big of a need back then as big men are today. Grant's second PG signing was Releford - the best PG we've had since Ron.

    yes Releford had been our best PG pick since Ron, I still remember being at Bham tip off club and Grant answering a question about our PG position that he thought he had us a PG that would sign (releford) to take over next year (no mention of Eblen on the roster).

    Eblen was signed because Grant had been recruiting him to VCU and he brought him with him since he had already been recruiting him. It was common knowledge at the time and was used over and over again as the excuse that Grant was just showing Eblen loyalty as to why we ever signed him to begin with by Grant supporters over and over again the last few years. I even remember when we hired Grant there were postes saying that not only it was a great hire, but he was bringing a PG with him that he had been recruiting to play for him at VCU.

    But yeah, Grant just recruited and signed Eblen at the last minute because when he got here and saw we didn't have a PG, it didn't happen that way, but go ahead and believe it. It is a true as some of the other pro Grant arguements that go on around here.

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    robert1975

  • TeddyBama24 said...

    Thank you! If our fan base and administration wants to win in 4 years after our program had been missing from the NCAA tournament since 2006 (we made it last year people) by any means necessary, then I want no part of that discussion. This whole Coach Cal did it in 3 years talk is ridiculous. Coach Cal is a cheater, tells kids that he will send them back to the ghetto when they perform poorly, and is coaching at one of the most prestigious college basketball programs in the nation. We can't just go anywhere and pull a top recruit. There are mid majors that have a better name in college basketball than Alabama. It is going to take constant success over a 10-15 period of time to build a brand that we can sell to top recruits around the nation (like Billy Donovan has done). Firing a coach who is right on track in year 4 will send our Basketball program back two decades, and we will not replace him with anybody close to as good (unless you want a cheater, which is quite common in college basketball).

    Do you have any links, articles etc. that has Coach Cal saying he will send players back to the ghetto?

    UofADuke ●

  • robert1975 said...

    yes Releford had been our best PG pick since Ron, I still remember being at Bham tip off club and Grant answering a question about our PG position that he thought he had us a PG that would sign (releford) to take over next year (no mention of Eblen on the roster).

    Eblen was signed because Grant had been recruiting him to VCU and he brought him with him since he had already been recruiting him. It was common knowledge at the time and was used over and over again as the excuse that Grant was just showing Eblen loyalty as to why we ever signed him to begin with by Grant supporters over and over again the last few years. I even remember when we hired Grant there were postes saying that not only it was a great hire, but he was bringing a PG with him that he had been recruiting to play for him at VCU.

    But yeah, Grant just recruited and signed Eblen at the last minute because when he got here and saw we didn't have a PG, it didn't happen that way, but go ahead and believe it. It is a true as some of the other pro Grant arguements that go on around here.

    If we did not have a glaring weakness at pg, then Eblen would still be at VCU today. I don't see it as a pro Grant argument. It's just the way it is. When you are brought in in late March, your recruiting options are very limited. Bama had a pg need. Grant knew a pg that would play for him.

    If you want to evaluate Grant on a commit when Grant had been on the job for about a month, then go right ahead. It doesn't make sense to me, but to each his own.

    BGZATUA ●

  • TeddyBama24 said...

    Thank you! If our fan base and administration wants to win in 4 years after our program had been missing from the NCAA tournament since 2006 (we made it last year people) by any means necessary, then I want no part of that discussion. This whole Coach Cal did it in 3 years talk is ridiculous. Coach Cal is a cheater, tells kids that he will send them back to the ghetto when they perform poorly, and is coaching at one of the most prestigious college basketball programs in the nation. We can't just go anywhere and pull a top recruit. There are mid majors that have a better name in college basketball than Alabama. It is going to take constant success over a 10-15 period of time to build a brand that we can sell to top recruits around the nation (like Billy Donovan has done). Firing a coach who is right on track in year 4 will send our Basketball program back two decades, and we will not replace him with anybody close to as good (unless you want a cheater, which is quite common in college basketball).

    One or two posters (in a 5 page thread) mention Calipari and all of a sudden that's what everyone wants?

    The fact that fans want to see their basketball program moving in the right direction after four years means they want it done "by any means necessary?"

    I'm sorry, but do you work for MSNBC? You've gotten to the point where you are engaging in ridiculous hyperbole in a manner so as to demean anyone who happens to have a different opinion than you do.

    Based on all the posts I've read in this thread, there seem to be two camps: People like you that think everything is great, CAG is a great guy/coach, and he'll get it going soon enough. The other camp (people like me) see a floundering basketball team that, frankly, shows signs of being coached by a first-year coach and not a fourth-year coach. Most of us haven't advocated or even said CAG should be fired this year. Many of us have said next year is his make-or-break year.

    I don't know if CAG is a good person. I hope he is. I'm not so sure he's that good of a coach based on what I've seen on the court and the apparently lack of the development of our players and in his recruiting. This isn't the '70s or '80s, where time wasn't necessarily an issue. Expectations are compressed. Timeframes are compressed. Four years, frankly, is an eternity. If Bama was in a "real" basketball conference, missing the NCAA tourney 3 out of 4 years gets you a pink slip.

    Plus, let's be honest here: dude makes $1.8M a year, and he's got zero NCAA tourney wins? in 4 years? Come on. I want him to succeed because it means our team succeeds; but at some point, you have to consider pulling the plug.

    LegalAcidity

  • TeddyBama24 said...

    Firing a coach who is right on track in year 4 will send our Basketball program back two decades

    Thank God, let's do that immediately. Bama basketball in the early 90s was so much better than what we have today.

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    robert1975

  • robert1975 said...

    Thank God, let's do that immediately. Bama basketball in the early 90s was so much better than what we have today.

    BOOM +1 billion

    LegalAcidity

  • I agree and I know most of you think he is on the hot seat but CAG is not just because yall don't think he know what he is doing hell if that is the case then I think some of you should change yall profession. I knew this team wouland alabama d be very young and things take time I really think that they over performed. But I do think we are on the right track. Everything that yall are complaining about can be fixed and will get fix. Please stop saying stuff like if he dont make it to the big dance he will be gone because that is bullshit. This coach have won 20 games the last 3 years and stop saying because he make 2 million dollars he should be wining more thats bs give the man time this is not football people let the man keep recruiting and Alabama will be fine.

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    cj75

    cjrolltide75 ●

  • robert1975 said...

    Thank God, let's do that immediately. Bama basketball in the early 90s was so much better than what we have today.

    I about fell on the floor when reading this. Hobbs worst 4 years are at Bama still had more NCAA victories than Grant's first 4 most likely.

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    IvoryTusk

  • IvoryTusk said...

    I about fell on the floor when reading this. Hobbs worst 4 years are at Bama still had more NCAA victories than Grant's first 4 most likely.

    Yep, he had two to CAG's zero.

    LegalAcidity

  • cjrolltide75 said...

    I agree and I know most of you think he is on the hot seat but CAG is not just because yall don't think he know what he is doing hell if that is the case then I think some of you should change yall profession. I knew this team wouland alabama d be very young and things take time I really think that they over performed. But I do think we are on the right track. Everything that yall are complaining about can be fixed and will get fix. Please stop saying stuff like if he dont make it to the big dance he will be gone because that is bullshit. This coach have won 20 games the last 3 years and stop saying because he make 2 million dollars he should be wining more thats bs give the man time this is not football people let the man keep recruiting and Alabama will be fine.

    Your right. 20 wins in 3 out of 4 years is amazing. Why Andy Kennedy has 5 straight 20 win seasons, maybe Ole Miss should be giving him a huge raise. You say we are on the right track. Grant's salary will be 9.5 million over 5 years total. So say he wins a tourney game then, does that mean that at Alabama we expect to pay 10 mill. for one NCAA victory for every 5 years and think that's improvement? We paid Hobbs 3 million over 5 years, and he got us 2 NCAA Victories.

    Also I worry about Grant's recruiting, we still haven't signed a pg in two yrs. Retin has not played point all year despite him getting minutes lately. He only comes in primarily to spell Randolph and Lacey, and I can't think of a time when he ran the point by himself without Releford on the floor. That means when Rele graduates we most likely will be relying on retin and a true freshman, if Grant actually recruits one to play point. Kinda like our problem with bigs this year, Grant does't build rosters properly. You should be signing at minimum one PG every 2 years in basketball. Plus Retin was a project, that while playing better still has never proven he can play that position.

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    IvoryTusk

  • IvoryTusk said...

    Your right. 20 wins in 3 out of 4 years is amazing. Why Andy Kennedy has 5 straight 20 win seasons, maybe Ole Miss should be giving him a huge raise. You say we are on the right track. Grant's salary will be 9.5 million over 5 years total. So say he wins a tourney game then, does that mean that at Alabama we expect to pay 10 mill. for one NCAA victory for every 5 years and think that's improvement? We paid Hobbs 3 million over 5 years, and he got us 2 NCAA Victories.

    Also I worry about Grant's recruiting, we still haven't signed a pg in two yrs. Retin has not played point all year despite him getting minutes lately. He only comes in primarily to spell Randolph and Lacey, and I can't think of a time when he ran the point by himself without Releford on the floor. That means when Rele graduates we most likely will be relying on retin and a true freshman, if Grant actually recruits one to play point. Kinda like our problem with bigs this year, Grant does't build rosters properly. You should be signing at minimum one PG every 2 years in basketball. Plus Retin was a project, that while playing better still has never proven he can play that position.

    Eventually, if things go accordingly to plan, we won't have any big men or PG's.

    Just 5 dudes all around 6'4 dribbling into the lane and kicking the ball out to each other. All night long. biggrin

    Being serious for a moment...the more I step away from it, the more I realize this will all be ironed out next season one way or another. If it's more of the same he's gone, and if we show improvement and make the tournament he'll be here. Nothing this year will placate either side of the discussion. We most likely ain't winning in the tournament and he's not getting fired, so I'm stepping away from the ledge.

    I hope CAG is here for 20 years. That will mean he's been successful. This year may not have been an abject failure, but it wasn't a success. There are 100 reasons why, but that's what happened. Maybe they'll finish this year on a run, improve in the offseason, and the new recruits will come in ready to go.

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    NashTide

  • Maybe he will turn it around, but we don't play in a vacuum, other teams will improve as well. UK had it's worst year and brings in an amazing class next year. My biggest concern is say he has one good year, and then 4 medicore years, which is what he has done so far. Isn't that why we got rid of Gottfried? We were tired of merely being a bubble team and not getting past that. Yet now if Grant achieves that after 5 years then the Pro-Grant Supporters will be like wow, we should give him a contract extension. I honestly thought the reason we spent so much money on Grant was to not be up and down like that and to have a consistent top 25 program. Instead in year 4 we can't even break into the Top 50 teams in the country. Heck right now breaking into the Top 50 at the end of the year would be an accomplishment.

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    IvoryTusk

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