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Info for parents of young athletes

  • I have been watching the olympics and I saw Lochte's strength and conditioning yesterday and it convinced me to post this piece.
    I know he won gold yesterday and this piece won't be popular, but his training will eventually lead to injury if continued. As a S&C coach you should know the specific issues that your athlete might be facing. All the swimmers I have ever coached have huge Scapular instability, big internal rotation deficits, and insufficient dynamic stability. Not all of the stuff he does is horrible, but I would never have any overhead athletes(pitchers, quarterbacks, javelin, swimmers and etc.) clean and I certainly wouldn't have any overhead athletes shoulder press. Also, proper form should be preached. Lifting tires isn't a bad idea if you have the dynamic mobility for it. I don't think lochte or most people new to lifting will have this mobility. While Lochte's S&C maybe good in the short term it will have detrimental effects in the long term(by the way this I believe is the same reason you see numerous injuries at the combine). If he wants to dominate at the olympics in brazil he will need to change his s&c.
    ADVICE FOR S&C AND S&C COACHES
    1.parents need to be proactive in their kids S&C. Do research and if something doesn't look right it probably isn't. Ask questions and make sure they can explain why they are doing what they are doing.
    2. Buy a foam roller and use it before and after workouts
    3. Do dynamic mobility work at the beginning of a workout. this isn't the same as stretching.
    4. If your kid is an overhead athlete and coach has him/her overhead pressing or cleaning be prepared for injuries. I would also add barbell benching to this list. They should be fine to dumbbell bench. I would get away from full range dumbbell bench one week out of the month.
    5. Steady state cardio is garbage.
    6. If your kid is overweight, don't use more conditioning to lose weight. Lose weight through diet.
    There are other rules of course. This is just a good foundation.
    7. Not all athletes are the same. Different athletes have different needs.
    ADVICE FOR LONG TERM ATHLETIC DEVELOPMENT
    If your kid is a little younger I would advise you having he or she play multiple sports. 3 completely different sports set up in trimesters. If your kid is playing baseball I wouldn't have one of those other sports be swimming. This will also rule out fall ball if you are playing baseball in the summer. I have yet to have a kid that players summer ball and fall ball who doesn't have shoulder or elbow problems. He/She can strength train all year long. Also, the kids that step in my gym that played multiple sports are usually the most athletic kids.
    If your kid is in high school it might be appropriate to go to two sports a year.

    816am36974 ●

  • I acknowledge you know more about S & C than I could ever imagine. Yet, Lochte dominated yesterday in winning a gold medal, nearly setting a world record. He, like most elite athletes, very well may physically pay for his training & physical sacrifice, one day. But, he's an Olympic athlete. How can you prove your training techniques would have enabled him to win the Gold, while serving him better, anatomically speaking?

    zigzag

  • 8:16a.m. said...

    I have been watching the olympics and I saw Lochte's strength and conditioning yesterday and it convinced me to post this piece. I know he won gold yesterday and this piece won't be popular, but his training will eventually lead to injury if continued. As a S&C coach you should know the specific issues that your athlete might be facing. All the swimmers I have ever coached have huge Scapular instability, big internal rotation deficits, and insufficient dynamic stability. Not all of the stuff he does is horrible, but I would never have any overhead athletes(pitchers, quarterbacks, javelin, swimmers and etc.) clean and I certainly wouldn't have any overhead athletes shoulder press. Also, proper form should be preached. Lifting tires isn't a bad idea if you have the dynamic mobility for it. I don't think lochte or most people new to lifting will have this mobility. While Lochte's S&C maybe good in the short term it will have detrimental effects in the long term(by the way this I believe is the same reason you see numerous injuries at the combine). If he wants to dominate at the olympics in brazil he will need to change his s&c. ADVICE FOR S&C AND S&C COACHES 1.parents need to be proactive in their kids S&C. Do research and if something doesn't look right it probably isn't. Ask questions and make sure they can explain why they are doing what they are doing. 2. Buy a foam roller and use it before and after workouts 3. Do dynamic mobility work at the beginning of a workout. this isn't the same as stretching. 4. If your kid is an overhead athlete and coach has him/her overhead pressing or cleaning be prepared for injuries. I would also add barbell benching to this list. They should be fine to dumbbell bench. I would get away from full range dumbbell bench one week out of the month. 5. Steady state cardio is garbage. 6. If your kid is overweight, don't use more conditioning to lose weight. Lose weight through diet. There are other rules of course. This is just a good foundation. 7. Not all athletes are the same. Different athletes have different needs. ADVICE FOR LONG TERM ATHLETIC DEVELOPMENT If your kid is a little younger I would advise you having he or she play multiple sports. 3 completely different sports set up in trimesters. If your kid is playing baseball I wouldn't have one of those other sports be swimming. This will also rule out fall ball if you are playing baseball in the summer. I have yet to have a kid that players summer ball and fall ball who doesn't have shoulder or elbow problems. He/She can strength train all year long. Also, the kids that step in my gym that played multiple sports are usually the most athletic kids. If your kid is in high school it might be appropriate to go to two sports a year.

    Hasn't he and Phelps been training similarly for 10 plus years? If they have injury problems in their 40s when their days are done, what difference does it make if their goals were to win when they were in their prime?

    Just curious.

    cwaters2

  • zigzag said...

    I acknowledge you know more about S & C than I could ever imagine. Yet, Lochte dominated yesterday in winning a gold medal, nearly setting a world record. He, like most elite athletes, very well may physically pay for his training & physical sacrifice, one day. But, he's an Olympic athlete. How can you prove your training techniques would have enabled him to win the Gold, while serving him better, anatomically speaking?

    I acknowledged that his training may have some short term benefits. But i do believe you could get very similar benefits with other exercises.
    Overhead training is only for athletes who have no anatomical instabilities and who are very sound mechanically during movements.

    1. Most overhead athletes have an increase risk of anterior instability
    2 .The majority of overhead athletes have supraspinatus partial thickness tears

    3. All overhead athletes have some degree of labral fraying

    4. Congenital shoulder instability is one of the traits that makes overhead athletes better than others

    5. Most overhead athletes have an increase risk of anterior instability
    6. Overhead athletes have less scapular upward rotation at certain ranges of abduction. Upward rotation is extremely important for safe overhead activity.

    Some of this info comes from Dr. James Andrew's paper on Glenoid labrum tears related to the long head of the biceps.
    Basically no overhead athlete is anatomically sound. So it isn't safe to clean or overhead press. Also, his form on deadlifts is horrible. Deadlifts are great if done properly.

    816am36974 ●

  • cwaters2 said...

    Hasn't he and Phelps been training similarly for 10 plus years? If they have injury problems in their 40s when their days are done, what difference does it make if their goals were to win when they were in their prime?

    Just curious.

    I don't believe Lochte has been strength training like that for 10 years. In fact I guarantee he hasn't He would have had a serious injury by now. He has been swimming like that for a long time. The problem is a lot of these guys don't have injury problems in their 40s. A lot of these guys do get injuries in their prime. I would still say lochte would be in his prime in 4 years. Same with phelps if he actually wanted to swim.

    816am36974 ●

  • 8:16a.m. said...

    I acknowledged that his training may have some short term benefits. But i do believe you could get very similar benefits with other exercises. Overhead training is only for athletes who have no anatomical instabilities and who are very sound mechanically during movements.

    1. Most overhead athletes have an increase risk of anterior instability 2 .The majority of overhead athletes have supraspinatus partial thickness tears

    3. All overhead athletes have some degree of labral fraying

    4. Congenital shoulder instability is one of the traits that makes overhead athletes better than others

    5. Most overhead athletes have an increase risk of anterior instability 6. Overhead athletes have less scapular upward rotation at certain ranges of abduction. Upward rotation is extremely important for safe overhead activity.

    Some of this info comes from Dr. James Andrew's paper on Glenoid labrum tears related to the long head of the biceps. Basically no overhead athlete is anatomically sound. So it isn't safe to clean or overhead press. Also, his form on deadlifts is horrible. Deadlifts are great if done properly.

    since when is a "clean" over head? You sure you're not thinkin' of a snatch?

    Devon97

  • Devon97 said...

    since when is a "clean" over head? You sure you're not thinkin' of a snatch?

    Really it is olympic lifts in general. Olympic lifts take a lot of time to learn. Olympic lifters are constantly trying to perfect their technique. They are very technical and time can be better spent developing explosive power in other exercises. Even with good technique they beat up your shoulders, elbows and wrist. All olympic lifts take place in the sagittal plane. If you are squatting or deadlifting you are already training enough in the sagittal plane.

    816am36974 ●

  • define a "overhead" athlete please. I am guessing you are talking about football, baseball and basketball primarily....or maybe referring to overhead lifts such as bench press, military press...Thanks in advance. Interesting topic.

    signature image

    "The (All In) Family"

    jctyde ●

  • 8:16...I've coached 8 teams over the last 5 years in baseball and basketball and this "off-season" I'm starting a training program for my 8 and 6 year old. I have done quite a bit of research and the other coach I'm working with has training experience. We were going to focus mostly on plyometric training, very little to no weight training, and some martial arts for fun and flexibility (the other coach I'm working with taught martial arts for over 15 years). Our goal is speed and agility. In your opinion, what's the best way to go about training young kids ages 6-8? Anything specific you would recommend? We're starting the week after next, but I figure the more opinion and information I can get, the better. TIA

    Chicago Mike

  • As a personal trainer myself, 8:16, I have to say that you are right on with your assessments, especially with the younger athletes. Good job!

    bluegrassbob

  • jctyde said...

    define a "overhead" athlete please. I am guessing you are talking about football, baseball and basketball primarily....or maybe referring to overhead lifts such as bench press, military press...Thanks in advance. Interesting topic.

    I am specifically speaking about sports with what would be considered heavy overhead work. So any type of throwing and swimming. So baseball, swimming, and quarterback. However, throwing a football is probably the easiest on the shoulder of all three. I wouldn't include basketball. Rarely throw a ball as hard as you can in bball.
    I you don't compete in these sports then you might be fine to do overhead work. However, if you are an overhead athlete then I would stick dumbbell bench presses and push ups. You can increase push up resistance with bands or chains. You can still get strong and big on these workouts. Push ups are a close-chain movement and minimize injury risk while allowing you to load.

    816am36974 ●

  • Chicago Mike said...

    8:16...I've coached 8 teams over the last 5 years in baseball and basketball and this "off-season" I'm starting a training program for my 8 and 6 year old. I have done quite a bit of research and the other coach I'm working with has training experience. We were going to focus mostly on plyometric training, very little to no weight training, and some martial arts for fun and flexibility (the other coach I'm working with taught martial arts for over 15 years). Our goal is speed and agility. In your opinion, what's the best way to go about training young kids ages 6-8? Anything specific you would recommend? We're starting the week after next, but I figure the more opinion and information I can get, the better. TIA

    Whatever you do it should be fun. I am sure you know it is hard to keep kids focused. I wouldn't focus on plyometrics. My favorite for kids is single leg work. I do a lot of lunges with my nephews. They are 9 and 7. I would start with reverse lunges and progress to walking forward lunges. I would also recommend prowler sled for kids. My nephews love it and it can be loaded with weight or you can do no weight. Once you have built appropriate strength and mobility then you might implement some plyo. As far as sprint work I wouldn't do more than 3x per week with kids. And it is probably better at 2x per week. The thing to remember is quality over quantity.
    Here is sample mobility work i would do with basketball players

    Our warm up starts with foam rolling and then we go to mobility work
    Here is a sample mobility routine.
    You can probably find most of these on youtube if you need it.
    MOBILITY
    Exercise Reps
    Supine bridges 10
    Rocking ankle mobilization 8x/side
    Side lying extension-rotation 8x/side
    Scapular wall slide 8x/side
    Wall ankle mobilization 8x/side
    Alternating lateral lunge walk 5x/side
    Reverse single leg SLDL walk 5x/side
    Overhead lunge walk 5x/side
    Cross-behind overhead reverse lungs 5x/side
    just youtube these if you want to see what they look at.

    816am36974 ●

  • As a swimmer and a swim coach I can tell you that his "strong man" workouts will do nothing for his swimming. He might have developed a mental advantage, but he could accomplish much more with much less risk of injury with different s&c techniques. Also his winning the Gold over Michael phelps has way more to do with Michael than it does with Lochte. Lochte is arrogant in his interviews about being the best swimmer right now, but michael's head and heart has not been in training since the last Olympics. Rest assured if it had been, everyone would still be asking who the heck Lochte is.

    It is easy to win a fight when the other guy is not fighting. You just look like a fool when you gloat as if you won something. That is exactly what Lochte is doing right now. If his heart and head were in it, Phelps is still twice the swimmer Lochte is.

    All of that to say, don't let your kid get arrogant like him and don't let them do that moronic training that Lochte is doing.

    imabamadad

  • imabamadad said...

    As a swimmer and a swim coach I can tell you that his "strong man" workouts will do nothing for his swimming. He might have developed a mental advantage, but he could accomplish much more with much less risk of injury with different s&c techniques. Also his winning the Gold over Michael phelps has way more to do with Michael than it does with Lochte. Lochte is arrogant in his interviews about being the best swimmer right now, but michael's head and heart has not been in training since the last Olympics. Rest assured if it had been, everyone would still be asking who the heck Lochte is.

    It is easy to win a fight when the other guy is not fighting. You just look like a fool when you gloat as if you won something. That is exactly what Lochte is doing right now. If his heart and head were in it, Phelps is still twice the swimmer Lochte is.

    All of that to say, don't let your kid get arrogant like him and don't let them do that moronic training that Lochte is doing.

    Agree.

    816am36974 ●

  • 8:16a.m. said...

    Whatever you do it should be fun. I am sure you know it is hard to keep kids focused. I wouldn't focus on plyometrics. My favorite for kids is single leg work. I do a lot of lunges with my nephews. They are 9 and 7. I would start with reverse lunges and progress to walking forward lunges. I would also recommend prowler sled for kids. My nephews love it and it can be loaded with weight or you can do no weight. Once you have built appropriate strength and mobility then you might implement some plyo. As far as sprint work I wouldn't do more than 3x per week with kids. And it is probably better at 2x per week. The thing to remember is quality over quantity. Here is sample mobility work i would do with basketball players

    Our warm up starts with foam rolling and then we go to mobility work Here is a sample mobility routine. You can probably find most of these on youtube if you need it. MOBILITY Exercise Reps Supine bridges 10 Rocking ankle mobilization 8x/side Side lying extension-rotation 8x/side Scapular wall slide 8x/side Wall ankle mobilization 8x/side Alternating lateral lunge walk 5x/side Reverse single leg SLDL walk 5x/side Overhead lunge walk 5x/side Cross-behind overhead reverse lungs 5x/side just youtube these if you want to see what they look at.

    Great, thanks!

    Chicago Mike

  • Lochte just won a Gold bro.

    signature image

    Walsh Mathers

  • Chicago Mike said...

    8:16...I've coached 8 teams over the last 5 years in baseball and basketball and this "off-season" I'm starting a training program for my 8 and 6 year old. I have done quite a bit of research and the other coach I'm working with has training experience. We were going to focus mostly on plyometric training, very little to no weight training, and some martial arts for fun and flexibility (the other coach I'm working with taught martial arts for over 15 years). Our goal is speed and agility. In your opinion, what's the best way to go about training young kids ages 6-8? Anything specific you would recommend? We're starting the week after next, but I figure the more opinion and information I can get, the better. TIA

    No flame, but I pray that you wouldn't put your 6 and 8 year olds through weight training.

    signature image

    Walsh Mathers

  • 8:16a.m. said...

    Really it is olympic lifts in general. Olympic lifts take a lot of time to learn. Olympic lifters are constantly trying to perfect their technique. They are very technical and time can be better spent developing explosive power in other exercises. Even with good technique they beat up your shoulders, elbows and wrist. All olympic lifts take place in the sagittal plane. If you are squatting or deadlifting you are already training enough in the sagittal plane.

    Good call. I OLY lifts are only good if your actual sport is competing in OLY lifts.

    There are far better ways to develop force.

    Devon97

  • Walsh Mathers said...

    No flame, but I pray that you wouldn't put your 6 and 8 year olds through weight training.

    Strength training can be very beneficial for kids if it is implemented properly and under constant supervision.

    816am36974 ●

  • 8:16a.m. said...

    I acknowledged that his training may have some short term benefits. But i do believe you could get very similar benefits with other exercises. Overhead training is only for athletes who have no anatomical instabilities and who are very sound mechanically during movements.

    You speak as if you've physically assessed Lochte, as I certainly have not. But based on a cursory TV-once over, it appears to me that he has a good bit more upper body bulk than most swimmers I've seen. Perhaps this is as a result of his "overhead training."

    Obviously, only God knows if Lochte's rigorous S & C made the difference in him winning Gold. Since his opportunity is certainly rare in contrast to most athletes, I'd say he's made the right choices in his training and preparation, as evidenced by his results, thus far. But I must qualify this by saying that I've never trained Olympic athletes, as I would like to think that you must have.

    zigzag

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    signature image signature image signature image

    bamaman18

  • I don't have to assess Lochte. I can guarantee that he is not mechanically or anatomically sound in overhead motions. He is a swimmer that spends enormous amounts of time in the pool. "Studies have found that this abnormal
    internal-to-external rotator torque ratio is an unavoidable consequence of swimming and is
    present even at the high school level. " Quote comes from "Identifying and Managing Shoulder Pain in Competitive Swimmers How to Minimize Training Flaws and Other Risks". This article was in THE PHYSICIAN AND SPORTSMEDICINE - VOL 33 - NO. 9 - SEPTEMBER 2005
    Coupled with all the info in Dr. James Andrew's Paper. Also, Should be noted that Andrew's viewed asymptomatic athletes
    It really isn't a question of whether he has any biomechanical problems with his shoulder, but how bad are they. If you are a swimmer or any of you friends are swimmers examine their shoulder laxity. They may be Asymptomatic now, but if I began having them clean and press I can promise shoulder problems.
    This isn't criticizing Lochte. How is he suppose to know.

    816am36974 ●

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    Raging Bull

  • Walsh Mathers said...

    No flame, but I pray that you wouldn't put your 6 and 8 year olds through weight training.

    No wieght training, the only thing we're doing for strength/muscle training is push-ups and light use of resistance bands. We're doing a twice a week schedule over a 4 month span. I think we're going to implement the juice next year. g

    Chicago Mike

  • Chicago Mike said...

    No wieght training, the only thing we're doing for strength/muscle training is push-ups and light use of resistance bands. We're doing a twice a week schedule over a 4 month span. I think we're going to implement the juice next year. g

    Well played.

    816am36974 ●

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