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Info for parents of young athletes

  • 8:16a.m. said...

    I have been watching the olympics and I saw Lochte's strength and conditioning yesterday and it convinced me to post this piece. I know he won gold yesterday and this piece won't be popular, but his training will eventually lead to injury if continued. As a S&C coach you should know the specific issues that your athlete might be facing. All the swimmers I have ever coached have huge Scapular instability, big internal rotation deficits, and insufficient dynamic stability. Not all of the stuff he does is horrible, but I would never have any overhead athletes(pitchers, quarterbacks, javelin, swimmers and etc.) clean and I certainly wouldn't have any overhead athletes shoulder press. Also, proper form should be preached. Lifting tires isn't a bad idea if you have the dynamic mobility for it. I don't think lochte or most people new to lifting will have this mobility. While Lochte's S&C maybe good in the short term it will have detrimental effects in the long term(by the way this I believe is the same reason you see numerous injuries at the combine). If he wants to dominate at the olympics in brazil he will need to change his s&c. ADVICE FOR S&C AND S&C COACHES 1.parents need to be proactive in their kids S&C. Do research and if something doesn't look right it probably isn't. Ask questions and make sure they can explain why they are doing what they are doing. 2. Buy a foam roller and use it before and after workouts 3. Do dynamic mobility work at the beginning of a workout. this isn't the same as stretching. 4. If your kid is an overhead athlete and coach has him/her overhead pressing or cleaning be prepared for injuries. I would also add barbell benching to this list. They should be fine to dumbbell bench. I would get away from full range dumbbell bench one week out of the month. 5. Steady state cardio is garbage. 6. If your kid is overweight, don't use more conditioning to lose weight. Lose weight through diet. There are other rules of course. This is just a good foundation. 7. Not all athletes are the same. Different athletes have different needs. ADVICE FOR LONG TERM ATHLETIC DEVELOPMENT If your kid is a little younger I would advise you having he or she play multiple sports. 3 completely different sports set up in trimesters. If your kid is playing baseball I wouldn't have one of those other sports be swimming. This will also rule out fall ball if you are playing baseball in the summer. I have yet to have a kid that players summer ball and fall ball who doesn't have shoulder or elbow problems. He/She can strength train all year long. Also, the kids that step in my gym that played multiple sports are usually the most athletic kids. If your kid is in high school it might be appropriate to go to two sports a year.

    I agree with pretty much everything you said, except I would like more elaboration on #5 and #6.

    It seems to me that steady state cardio would be appropriate for endurance athletes such as cross country runners and long-distance track and field events, although I agree that there are better conditioning options (such as High-Intensity Interval Training and "functional, sport-specific" training) for most other sports.

    Also, I think a distinction should be made between what steady state cardio can do for *peak athletic performance* and what it can do for overall fitness and health in the general population. There is a lot of evidence that moderate to vigorous steady state cardio has many benefits for (or at least *is associated with*) fitness, health and wellness, though I agree that *if you're a competitive athlete* you might consider HIIT training etc. But for middle-aged and older persons, I would actually recommend moderate steady state cardio as safer, since HIIT training for older people may increase risks of musculoskeletal injury. I would like you to elaborate on your position, as I don't want any regular readers to be misled about the possible benefits and limitations of steady state cardio.

    Also, on #6, I completely agree that diet is essential to losing weight and keeping it off, but everything I've read says the "best-practice" for losing weight and keeping it off is the appropriate *combination* of diet and exercise. But I agree with you that *if* vigorous exercise/conditioning alone is not producing weight loss, then careful attention should must be paid to diet.

    I would appreciate your elaboration especially on steady-state cardio. I believe my views are in line with the most recent statement of the American College of Sports Medicine on exercise, but I would genuinely appreciate your views on this if they differ from mine.

    I *completely* agree with you about the foam rollers! I discovered those a couple years ago and to me they are almost magical. *Everyone* who is involved with conditiong or fitness needs to discover the joys of foam rollers!

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by Owen1611 on 7/29/2012 at 4:05 PM

    ACSM | News Releases

    http://www.acsm.org/about-acsm/media-room/news-releases/2011/08/01/acsm-issues-new-recommendations-on-quantity-and-quality-of-exercise

    www.acsm.org

    Owen1611

  • Chicago Mike said...

    No wieght training, the only thing we're doing for strength/muscle training is push-ups and light use of resistance bands. We're doing a twice a week schedule over a 4 month span. I think we're going to implement the juice next year. g

    Haha I hear you man. I've seen so many overzealous parents who live through their kids make them lift weights at unbelievably early ages, resulting in a kid who loses all drive to compete by their freshman year in high school.

    IMHO, whinstrol is the way to go for the 9 y/o (g).

    signature image

    Walsh Mathers

  • 8:16a.m. said...

    I don't have to assess Lochte. I can guarantee that he is not mechanically or anatomically sound in overhead motions. He is a swimmer that spends enormous amounts of time in the pool. "Studies have found that this abnormal internal-to-external rotator torque ratio is an unavoidable consequence of swimming and is present even at the high school level. " Quote comes from "Identifying and Managing Shoulder Pain in Competitive Swimmers How to Minimize Training Flaws and Other Risks". This article was in THE PHYSICIAN AND SPORTSMEDICINE - VOL 33 - NO. 9 - SEPTEMBER 2005 Coupled with all the info in Dr. James Andrew's Paper. Also, Should be noted that Andrew's viewed asymptomatic athletes It really isn't a question of whether he has any biomechanical problems with his shoulder, but how bad are they. If you are a swimmer or any of you friends are swimmers examine their shoulder laxity. They may be Asymptomatic now, but if I began having them clean and press I can promise shoulder problems. This isn't criticizing Lochte. How is he suppose to know.

    You could throw a rock in any direction and most likely hit someone who, if given the chance to win an Olympic Gold Medal, would gladly suffer from shoulder pain for the rest of their glorious lives, from having trained incorrectly. I'm sorry that I have no articles of studies to reference, here. So, call it a gut feeling.

    Please send my regards to Drs. Andrews and Cain.

    zigzag

  • Walsh Mathers said...

    Lochte just won a Gold bro.

    Yes, but the other guys are right that Phelps isn't the same. Lochte hasn't really been close to Phelps's record times. Even though Lochte torched Phelps in the last race, remember that yellow line that smoked them all is the real Phelps.

    Huskypup

  • nm

    This post was edited by 816am36974 on 7/29/2012 at 6:41 PM

    816am36974

  • zigzag said...

    You could throw a rock in any direction and most likely hit someone who, if given the chance to win an Olympic Gold Medal, would gladly suffer from shoulder pain for the rest of their glorious lives, from having trained incorrectly. I'm sorry that I have no articles of studies to reference, here. So, call it a gut feeling.

    Please send my regards to Drs. Andrews and Cain.

    You still don't get it. He could get the same benefits from doing medicine ball work and plyometrics and possibly win more golds at more olympics.

    816am36974

  • Owen1611 said...

    I agree with pretty much everything you said, except I would like more elaboration on #5 and #6.

    It seems to me that steady state cardio would be appropriate for endurance athletes such as cross country runners and long-distance track and field events, although I agree that there are better conditioning options (such as High-Intensity Interval Training and "functional, sport-specific" training) for most other sports.

    Also, I think a distinction should be made between what steady state cardio can do for *peak athletic performance* and what it can do for overall fitness and health in the general population. There is a lot of evidence that moderate to vigorous steady state cardio has many benefits for (or at least *is associated with*) fitness, health and wellness, though I agree that *if you're a competitive athlete* you might consider HIIT training etc. But for middle-aged and older persons, I would actually recommend moderate steady state cardio as safer, since HIIT training for older people may increase risks of musculoskeletal injury. I would like you to elaborate on your position, as I don't want any regular readers to be misled about the possible benefits and limitations of steady state cardio.

    Also, on #6, I completely agree that diet is essential to losing weight and keeping it off, but everything I've read says the "best-practice" for losing weight and keeping it off is the appropriate *combination* of diet and exercise. But I agree with you that *if* vigorous exercise/conditioning alone is not producing weight loss, then careful attention should must be paid to diet.

    I would appreciate your elaboration especially on steady-state cardio. I believe my views are in line with the most recent statement of the American College of Sports Medicine on exercise, but I would genuinely appreciate your views on this if they differ from mine.

    I *completely* agree with you about the foam rollers! I discovered those a couple years ago and to me they are almost magical. *Everyone* who is involved with conditiong or fitness needs to discover the joys of foam rollers!

    You kind of answered your issue with number 5 for me. Even then endurance athletes probably need to sprint at least twice a month and probably more like once a week. They also need to incorporate interval training. I could go into more detail, but you seem to have solid understanding.
    We agree on number 6 as well. If I implemented a strength and conditioning program for an obese 9 year old and he didn't start losing fat then I wouldn't prescribe more exercise to lose weight. I would continue him on the program and have him change his eating habits.

    816am36974

  • 8:16a.m. said...

    You still don't get it. He could get the same benefits from doing medicine ball work and plyometrics and possibly win more golds at more olympics.

    Oh, I get it, alright. Everyone, the operative phrase in the aforementioned statement by 8:16a.m. ^^^ is, "possibly win."

    Please elaborate for all of us about the slate of Olympic Gold Medalists whom you've trained - I mean the names of the Olympic athletes, the Olympiad year, the events, the Gold, Silver or Bronze - the whole nine yards. I'll now hang-up and listen.

    This post was edited by zigzag on 7/29/2012 at 7:39 PM

    zigzag

  • What about just normal people? I am 30 and an investment banker now, was an "athlete" once upon a time I guess. Fck all I do is ride the Elliptical 4-5 times a week "steady-state cardio" watch what I eat and generally avoid red meat and never touch trans fat. I probably should lift some weights.

    This post was edited by manbearpig7 on 7/29/2012 at 8:06 PM

    manbearpig7

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    816am36974

  • jctyde said...

    define a "overhead" athlete please. I am guessing you are talking about football, baseball and basketball primarily....or maybe referring to overhead lifts such as bench press, military press...Thanks in advance. Interesting topic.

    It's the flexibility of your wife or gf, at the ripe age of 31 my wife is an overhead athlete (g)

    BuriedAlive14

  • manbearpig7 said...

    What about just normal people? I am 30 and an investment banker now, was an "athlete" once upon a time I guess. Fck all I do is ride the Elliptical 4-5 times a week "steady-state cardio" watch what I eat and generally avoid red meat and never touch trans fat. I probably should lift some weights.

    Yeah that's fine. I would implement some strength training. It's always better than nothing.

    816am36974

  • Chicago Mike said...

    No wieght training, the only thing we're doing for strength/muscle training is push-ups and light use of resistance bands. We're doing a twice a week schedule over a 4 month span. I think we're going to implement the juice next year. g

    And sled dragging. It's safer than playing soccer or basketball.. No eccentric component.

    Devon97

  • Devon97 said...

    And sled dragging. It's safer than playing soccer or basketball.. No eccentric component.

    Agree. I use it for recovery.

    816am36974

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    zigzag

  • manbearpig7 said...

    What about just normal people? I am 30 and an investment banker now, was an "athlete" once upon a time I guess. Fck all I do is ride the Elliptical 4-5 times a week "steady-state cardio" watch what I eat and generally avoid red meat and never touch trans fat. I probably should lift some weights.

    What you're doing is good, but you're right that you should start strength training as well. Additionally, you should try doing stretching/flexibility exercises at least a few times a week, but ideally you should take little "micro-breaks" every day where you do some light/moderate stretching. Pilates and Yoga (if done safely) are also great ways to gain flexibility, balance, relaxation, core strength, etc. But all these exercises carry risks so educate yourself on proper form, rest intervals, nutrition, etc.

    Starting around age 30 we begin to lose muscle mass at a somewhat alarming rate. Not only does this obviously make us weaker but it also decreases our Basal Metabolic Rate, bone density, etc. Regular strength training can greatly slow this muscle loss.

    Below is a link to the latest exercise advice from the American College of Sports Medicine for the general population (July 2011)

    This post was edited by Owen1611 on 7/29/2012 at 10:25 PM

    ACSM | News Releases

    http://www.acsm.org/about-acsm/media-room/news-releases/2011/08/01/acsm-issues-new-recommendations-on-quantity-and-quality-of-exercise

    www.acsm.org

    Owen1611

  • Finally! My credit card lapsed so I couldn't respond earlier and now its time to eat dinner w/ the wife. I'll be back in a bit to drop some SWIMMING knowledge on everyone... the vast majority of you really couldn't be more wrong. That's not a flame, its just the truth.

    VegasTide

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    816am36974

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    CrimsonRage83

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    VegasTide

  • Owen1611 said...

    What you're doing is good, but you're right that you should start strength training as well. Additionally, you should try doing stretching/flexibility exercises at least a few times a week, but ideally you should take little "micro-breaks" every day where you do some light/moderate stretching. Pilates and Yoga (if done safely) are also great ways to gain flexibility, balance, relaxation, core strength, etc. But all these exercises carry risks so educate yourself on proper form, rest intervals, nutrition, etc.

    Starting around age 30 we begin to lose muscle mass at a somewhat alarming rate. Not only does this obviously make us weaker but it also decreases our Basal Metabolic Rate, bone density, etc. Regular strength training can greatly slow this muscle loss.

    Below is a link to the latest exercise advice from the American College of Sports Medicine for the general population (July 2011)

    Thanks man. I probably would need to hire a personal trainer to do all of that because I am just not disciplined enough in this area to do that on my own.

    manbearpig7

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    816am36974

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    VegasTide

  • In the past I injured my shoulder presumably from doing very intense shoulder workouts in the gym. I have largely recovered from that injury, and have resumed my shoulder workouts, albeit at a much reduced intensity. I have noticed, however, that after doing a shoulder workout, that it adversely effects my ability to throw a softball. If I understand you correctly, I think that's kind of where you are going in this thread. I have a two-fold question. a) should I discontinue shoulder workouts altogether, and b) is there a book you can recommend on this subject???

    bama58

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    uaswimmer95