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PSU Sanctions

  • rollingtide2004 said...

    Pete Thamel just tweeted "Programs that take PSU transfers won't have those scholly numbers count against them in '12-'13" This is huge. The barn will offer to pay their whole team.

    That maybe the worse penalty of all.

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    "I thought I was dancing until someone stepped on my hand" - Kenny Stabler WERC 10/2007

    Bamavike

  • rollingtide2004 said...

    Pete Thamel just tweeted "Programs that take PSU transfers won't have those scholly numbers count against them in '12-'13" This is huge. The barn will offer to pay their whole team.

    Wow, let the roster raid begin

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    BamaSarge04

  • Bama Boz said...

    For everyone saying its not a football issue, it kinda was. it happened in there locker room and was hidden by the Football head coach as not to bring bad publicity to the football program which woulds have hurt there rep and recruting

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. The cover-up was 100% done to protect Saturdays at State College.

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    strider696

  • nm

    This post was edited by BB2One on 7/23/2012 at 8:57 AM

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    BB2One

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    A One

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    Hado04

  • Bama Boz said...

    For everyone saying its not a football issue, it kinda was. it happened in there locker room and was hidden by the Football head coach as not to bring bad publicity to the football program which woulds have hurt there rep and recruting

    I totally agree, but punish those who are/were involved not the kids that were not even born. There are kids that didn't do anything wrong that are being punished for something that was out of their control. The coach(?) that was a witness, admin, AD anyone with knowledge that did nothing should face criminal charges and lose all state benefits. The coach that saw it or saw something and didn't go to police is unforgivable.

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    "I thought I was dancing until someone stepped on my hand" - Kenny Stabler WERC 10/2007

    Bamavike

  • BamaBornDukie said...

    Actually I think It should have been more severe.

    FYI......more info will be coming out soon about the extent of this cover-up as there are others that turned a blind-eye. More criminal charges are forthcoming as well.

    I'd drop drop them down to 10 scholarships per year for 5 years and a 5 year bowl ban with continuous monitoring over this time. If the "culture" doesn't change these penalties will be extended for 10 years.

    *****ALL YOU mofos defending Penn St and Paterno would be singing a different tune if YOUR child were a victim and a blind-eye was turned by the Administration. But then again a lot of you value football more than family.....so I'm really not surprised by the lack of perspective exhibited by many.*****

    Well said!! Plus 1 for you sir. Couldn't have said it better myself

    jayalanbama7

  • BamaBornDukie said...

    Actually I think It should have been more severe.

    FYI......more info will be coming out soon about the extent of this cover-up as there are others that turned a blind-eye. More criminal charges are forthcoming as well.

    I'd drop drop them down to 10 scholarships per year for 5 years and a 5 year bowl ban with continuous monitoring over this time. If the "culture" doesn't change these penalties will be extended for 10 years.

    *****ALL YOU mofos defending Penn St and Paterno would be singing a different tune if YOUR child were a victim and a blind-eye was turned by the Administration. But then again a lot of you value football more than family.....so I'm really not surprised by the lack of perspective exhibited by many.*****

    BBD, I think everyone agrees that the acts of molestation were/are horrendous and even worse in my eyes was the cover up by the administration.

    However, here are the questions I have: Are the victims going to receive a dime of that $60M fine? Is anything about this punishment helping the victims? Is anything about this punishment providing a safer environment for children, today and tomorrow, who are around the PSU program? I honestly don't know the answers to those questions.

    Furthermore, I think we have to look at the collateral damage that this penalty will cause. Players and coaches are obvious here. Economic hardships to the Happy Valley community are also something to think about. Not just to the school, but to Joe Random, the small business owner who gets out of the red for the year simply because of seven days in the fall. He and other small business owners are going to have significantly less traffic because of these sanctions. Is any of the $60M fine gonna help his family once he goes under?

    And finally, one has to ask questions about the power Mark Emmert just asserted. Everyone has beaten the "this is a legal mattter, not an NCAA matter" to death, so I'll leave it there.

    I just feel like this punishment hits a lot of people who had absolutely nothing to do with the scandal (and are probably just as mortified and pissed off about it as we are) while not doing much to improve the situation for either the victims or the PSU environment. Again, I think that the acts were terrible and the coverup was inhumane, I just have reservations about the punishment.

    This post was edited by bcal16 on 7/23/2012 at 9:10 AM

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    bcal16

  • bcal16 said...

    BBD, I think everyone agrees that the acts of molestation were/are horrendous and even worse in my eyes was the cover up by the administration.

    However, here are the questions I have: Are the victims going to receive a dime of that $60M fine? Is anything about this punishment helping the victims? Is anything about this punishment providing a safer environment for children, today and tomorrow, who are around the PSU program? I honestly don't know the answers to those questions.

    Furthermore, I think we have to look at the collateral damage that this penalty will cause. Players and coaches are obvious here. Economic hardships to the Happy Valley community are also something to think about. Not just to the school, but to Joe Random, the small business owner who gets out of the red for the year simply because of seven days in the fall. He and other small business owners are going to have significantly less traffic because of these sanctions. Is any of the $60M fine gonna help his family once he goes under?

    And finally, one has to ask questions about the power Mark Emmert just asserted. Everyone has beaten the "this is a legal mattter, not an NCAA matter" to death, so I'll leave it there.

    I just feel like this punishment hits a lot of people who had absolutely nothing to do with the scandal (and are probably just as mortified and pissed off about it as we are) while not doing much to improve the situation for either the victims or the PSU environment. Again, I think that the acts were terrible and the coverup was inhumane, I just have reservations about the punishment.

    The fine is going to a fund for victims.

    Other than that go read crime and punishment for a discussion on how we use punishment to deter crimes.

    scottchap

  • bcal16 said...

    I just feel like this punishment hits a lot of people who had absolutely nothing to do with the scandal (and are probably just as mortified and pissed off about it as we are) while not doing much to improve the situation for either the victims or the PSU environment. Again, I think that the acts were terrible and the coverup was inhumane, I just have reservations about the punishment.

    When a program gets put on probation it's usually not the ones that did it that get punished!!!!

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    bamasbac

  • BamaBornDukie said...

    Actually I think It should have been more severe.

    FYI......more info will be coming out soon about the extent of this cover-up as there are others that turned a blind-eye. More criminal charges are forthcoming as well.

    I'd drop drop them down to 10 scholarships per year for 5 years and a 5 year bowl ban with continuous monitoring over this time. If the "culture" doesn't change these penalties will be extended for 10 years.

    *****ALL YOU mofos defending Penn St and Paterno would be singing a different tune if YOUR child were a victim and a blind-eye was turned by the Administration. But then again a lot of you value football more than family.....so I'm really not surprised by the lack of perspective exhibited by many.*****

    Wow normally u give opinionated yet thoughtful responses. Not so in this case.

    If someone thinks the punishment was extreme that doesn't make them an apologist. It means they disagree.

    As far as the "if it was your child" arguement.... If it was your child your judgement would be so clouded you wouldn't be able to make a rational decision. You would want to kill the man, and those feeling are understandable.

    I think everybody needs to take a step back take a deep breath and relax.

    This post was edited by GSay001 on 7/23/2012 at 4:14 PM

    GSay001

  • scottchap said...

    The fine is going to a fund for victims.

    Other than that go read crime and punishment for a discussion on how we use punishment to deter crimes.

    Didn't know that about the fine. Thanks.

    As for crime and punishment, do you really think anything that the NCAA does will cause a child molester from touching little children? Do you really think that it will keep people who want to cover it up for selfish gain from doing so? Do you really think the PSU administrators who covered up the crimes didn't already know that if they were caught there would be hell to pay?

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    bcal16

  • bcal16 said...

    Didn't know that about the fine. Thanks.

    As for crime and punishment, do you really think anything that the NCAA does will cause a child molester from touching little children? Do you really think that it will keep people who want to cover it up for selfish gain from doing so? Do you really think the PSU administrators who covered up the crimes didn't already know that if they were caught there would be hell to pay?

    I don't know if it will but that has no bearing on whether they earned the punishment.

    scottchap

  • rollingtide2004 said...

    1. 10 scholarships/ year for 4 years (40 total) 2. 60 million fine, 3. no post-season for 4 years, 5. all wins from 98-2011 vacated. 6. Programs that take PSU transfers won't have those scholly numbers count against them in '12-'13. WOW. A bit extreme IMO.

    This is rediculous. Nothing they did hurt competition, so I do not understand the need for scholarship reduction nor the need for vacating wins. If you want to punish the University, hit them monetarily with bowl bans and fines, but for such a hammer to be levied on this issue and seeing Auburn be exhonerated for using a PROVEN PAID PLAYER shows that the NCAA has lost all credibility.

    "Touch that thang four" - Courtney Upshaw Roll Tide!!!

    hvacigar

  • bcal16 said...

    BBD, I think everyone agrees that the acts of molestation were/are horrendous and even worse in my eyes was the cover up by the administration.

    However, here are the questions I have: Are the victims going to receive a dime of that $60M fine? Is anything about this punishment helping the victims? Is anything about this punishment providing a safer environment for children, today and tomorrow, who are around the PSU program? I honestly don't know the answers to those questions.

    Furthermore, I think we have to look at the collateral damage that this penalty will cause. Players and coaches are obvious here. Economic hardships to the Happy Valley community are also something to think about. Not just to the school, but to Joe Random, the small business owner who gets out of the red for the year simply because of seven days in the fall. He and other small business owners are going to have significantly less traffic because of these sanctions. Is any of the $60M fine gonna help his family once he goes under?

    And finally, one has to ask questions about the power Mark Emmert just asserted. Everyone has beaten the "this is a legal mattter, not an NCAA matter" to death, so I'll leave it there.

    I just feel like this punishment hits a lot of people who had absolutely nothing to do with the scandal (and are probably just as mortified and pissed off about it as we are) while not doing much to improve the situation for either the victims or the PSU environment. Again, I think that the acts were terrible and the coverup was inhumane, I just have reservations about the punishment.

    Great points about it hurting other people's livelihood that did not do a thing wrong. I mentioned this in another thread, but I would imagine some of the Penn State recruiting sites may go out of business.

    ROLL TIDE!

    rollingtide2004

  • BamaBornDukie said...

    Actually I think It should have been more severe.

    FYI......more info will be coming out soon about the extent of this cover-up as there are others that turned a blind-eye. More criminal charges are forthcoming as well.

    I'd drop drop them down to 10 scholarships per year for 5 years and a 5 year bowl ban with continuous monitoring over this time. If the "culture" doesn't change these penalties will be extended for 10 years.

    *****ALL YOU mofos defending Penn St and Paterno would be singing a different tune if YOUR child were a victim and a blind-eye was turned by the Administration. But then again a lot of you value football more than family.....so I'm really not surprised by the lack of perspective exhibited by many.*****

    I don't defend Penn State, but it is reasonable to think the NCAA over-stepped it's boundaries. I'm not saying they did or didn't but this could very well be a dangerous precedent with unknown consequences in the future. Respect other people's opinions; it doesn't mean they support child abuse. It doesn't mean they value football over family. Your ignorance and prejudice has gotten the best of you.

    wdsBAMA

  • scottchap said...

    I don't know if it will but that has no bearing on whether they earned the punishment.

    I'm certainly not doubting whether the criminals in this situation deserve punishment. I'm questioning whether this NCAA punishment, with all of its collateral damage, is worth the very negligible positive effect it will have on the future.

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    bcal16

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    "Remember boys, flies spread disease...so keep yours closed." George Luz

    rickh7311

  • Punishing a person that steals millions from a company by sending them to jail and firing them punishes "innocents" in their family and all those that rely on them for their livelihood. It is just more people in this case. Remember Penn State did this to their innocent bystanders, not the NCAA.

    BamaTusks

  • bcal16 said...

    I'm certainly not doubting whether the criminals in this situation deserve punishment. I'm questioning whether this NCAA punishment, with all of its collateral damage, is worth the very negligible positive effect it will have on the future.

    That argument can be made for all punishments. Very few punishments have any positive effects. Most have loads of collateral damage. That's how punishment goes.

    I'm an anti-death penalty liberal arguing the merits of swift and severe punishment. This is odd.

    I see your points. I think though the NCAA acted appropriately and within their bounds in this unique situation.

    scottchap

  • hvacigar said...

    This is rediculous. Nothing they did hurt competition, so I do not understand the need for scholarship reduction nor the need for vacating wins. If you want to punish the University, hit them monetarily with bowl bans and fines, but for such a hammer to be levied on this issue and seeing Auburn be exhonerated for using a PROVEN PAID PLAYER shows that the NCAA has lost all credibility.

    Are you really bringing Auburn into this?! WOW. Who cares if Cam Newton got paid... This is an entirely different situation and should never be compared. I'd rather Cam Newton get paid 10 mil and win 3 championships than one kid get raped... That's just me.

    This post was edited by Hado04 on 7/23/2012 at 9:30 AM

    Hado04

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    "Show class, have pride, and display character. If you do, winning takes care of itself." -Coach Bryant

    bcal16

  • Anything short of abolishing the program as a whole, isn't enough. That team should never be allowed to step foot on a field again. The stadium should be torn down. We are talking about football vs humanity. It isn't up for debate. The NCAA needs to make an example, and this case is as bad as it gets. Look, I'm a huge Bama fan. But, if I found out Kirby had been raping children in BDS, and Saban/Moore knew about it and covered it up, I would have absolutely no problem with them discontinuing the program. My life would go on.

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    Cornjulio

  • hvacigar said...

    This is rediculous. Nothing they did hurt competition, so I do not understand the need for scholarship reduction nor the need for vacating wins. If you want to punish the University, hit them monetarily with bowl bans and fines, but for such a hammer to be levied on this issue and seeing Auburn be exhonerated for using a PROVEN PAID PLAYER shows that the NCAA has lost all credibility.

    If you can't see how keeping quiet over the years helped Paterno and Penn State in recruiting and the persuit of the wins record then you just are not looking very hard. If this was exposed years ago it could have brought down Penn State because of the financial web the administration was involved in, it would have damaged recruiting and could have forced Joe Pa out years ago. Keeping quiet DIRECTLY impacted winning.

    BamaTusks

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