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Question for Shane re: UA brand

  • I recall you saying maybe a year or so ago that you felt UA had not quite reached the brand level that USC reached in Carroll's prime in terms of national draw in recruiting. Do you think we're there yet?

    HighTide95

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  • HighTide95 said...

    I recall you saying maybe a year or so ago that you felt UA had not quite reached the brand level that USC reached in Carroll's prime in terms of national draw in recruiting. Do you think we're there yet?

    I think it's close. USC has natural advantages (i.e., L.A., the coast, etc.) that will make it attractive to a lot of kids when they are humming along. They also have a much larger natural talent base. USC had EIGHT five-star prospects in 2004 - four were from California.

    Good memory. I think I said Alabama had reached several milestones to becoming a national recruiting power: 1) dominating in-state, 2) winning conference titles, 3) winning national titles and the final piece at that point was consistent 1st round NFL exposure. Mission accomplished.

    Some programs should recruit itself. Texas for instance. Awesome city. Tradition. Resources. Talent base. They should always be a top five recruiting program and top five program. For them to go 6-6 or whatever it is this year is disgraceful.

    USC is the same way. Fun city, lot of tradition, star power, NFL history, resources and huge Cali talent base. For them to have to cheat for some reason with those advantages is also disgraceful.

    Alabama has to work harder. Per capita, Alabama produced a lot of football talent but it isn't Texas, Cali or Florida. Tuscaloosa - as much as I love the city - isn't Austin or LA although to some kids Tuscaloosa is just right. Geographically, it will never have the built-in advantages of a Texas or USC.

    Player development wise and work ethic on the recruiting trail, however, Alabama kicks both of their asses.

    Follow me at http://twitter.com/#!/shaneyoungblood

    Shane_BOL Staff ●

  • A solid coach and recruiter in Austin is a scary thought...

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    "You don't always get what you want, but you always get what you deserve"

    BAMAMANAGER ●

  • BAMAMANAGER said...

    A solid coach and recruiter in Austin is a scary thought...

    I think Mark Richt is a solid coach and recruiter....but if they had a monster recruiter and exceptional coach (Saban, Meyer) then UGA would be dominating. Tremendous talent base. They have had nice seasons but not being in a NC game for 25 plus years for that program is embarrasing. They have underachieved relative to their natural resources.

    Georgia, Florida, USC, Texas, Ohio State are all A+ with respect to program sustaining natural resources. Alabama is more B+. Alabama, however, maximizes every ounce of their resources.

    Follow me at http://twitter.com/#!/shaneyoungblood

    Shane_BOL Staff ●

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  • I think kids are becoming smarter and approaching recruiting like a business decision. Where to go for the next 3-5 years depends on who can get me to my end goal the easiest. Even if that means moving across the country. Just like how kids are moving to go to a better law school, etc.

    Look at Rob Foster. Kid would love to stay in Beaver County but Alabama can offer him a pipeline to the NFL unlike any other school in that area.

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    BattlestarTide ●

  • Fringe 99 said...

    Would you include FSU and Miami in that top group of talent base?

    Geographically, yes particularly Miami. Miami's fan base and resources elsewhere is abysmal. FSU has a tremendous national reputation. Lot of kids enamoured by them even though they haven't had that invinciable aura in years.

    Follow me at http://twitter.com/#!/shaneyoungblood

    Shane_BOL Staff ●

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    bamasandman81

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    Follow me at http://twitter.com/#!/shaneyoungblood

    Shane_BOL Staff ●

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    jebtide02

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    bamasandman81

  • Thanks Shane. Those are all good points. Fortunately kids like Foster... guys that are mature enough to see through recruiting BS and realize that maximizing their potential under someone like CNS (actually I guess there is nobody like CNS... he's in a league by himself now) in a disciplined structure like UA offers is their best shot at long-term success... and let's face it $$$. The reputation is out there now, and the mature kids see it, and the results every draft day. As long as we have that going, it would seem we should be able to pull in not just the top talent, but the most mature and coachable talent out there. That seems like the biggest differentiator we have right now and probably the best one to have. I'll take these kind of Fosters all day long over the other kind(g).

    HighTide95

  • Shane_BOL Staff said...

    I think Mark Richt is a solid coach and recruiter....but if they had a monster recruiter and exceptional coach (Saban, Meyer) then UGA would be dominating. Tremendous talent base. They have had nice seasons but not being in a NC game for 25 plus years for that program is embarrasing. They have underachieved relative to their natural resources.

    Georgia, Florida, USC, Texas, Ohio State are all A+ with respect to program sustaining natural resources. Alabama is more B+. Alabama, however, maximizes every ounce of their resources.

    Yea, well on second thought, you are right thereShane, very right...Jimbo Fisher is quickly joining that party too IMO. Mac B is a solid coach. You have to overachieve in the development category to get the results Saban does. There's little doubt we have the best in the business in getting the most out of our talent...sad and scary thing for our opponents is we have the best talent in the country. As good as it is right now; it can get better if Saban stays hungry and I just chuckle saying if in that sentence...tough ace for the rest of the CFB world to be in if you ask me.

    This post was edited by BAMAMANAGER on 12/22/2012 at 7:25 PM

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    BAMAMANAGER ●

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    "Oh and Mac...the horse's name is Friday." - Jim Bowers

    ksredmill

  • BAMAMANAGER said...

    Yea, well on second thought, you are right thereShane, very right...Jimbo Fisher is quickly joining that party too IMO. Mac B is a solid coach. You have to overachieve in the development category to get the results Saban does. There's little doubt we have the best in the business in getting the most out of our talent...sad and scary thing for our opponents is we have the best talent in the country. As good as it is right now; it can get better if Saban stays hungry and I just chuckle saying if in that sentence...tough ace for the rest of the CFB world to be in if you ask me.

    Right now I feel like we are in a texas hold game and we are dealt suited Ace-King every hand. It isn't Ace-Ace or King-King or Queen-Queen and you will run up against those hands and lose here are there. But I damn well like my chances with A-K every hand.

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    DEHIII ●

  • Shane_BOL Staff said...

    I think it's close. USC has natural advantages (i.e., L.A., the coast, etc.) that will make it attractive to a lot of kids when they are humming along. They also have a much larger natural talent base. USC had EIGHT five-star prospects in 2004 - four were from California.

    Good memory. I think I said Alabama had reached several milestones to becoming a national recruiting power: 1) dominating in-state, 2) winning conference titles, 3) winning national titles and the final piece at that point was consistent 1st round NFL exposure. Mission accomplished.

    Some programs should recruit itself. Texas for instance. Awesome city. Tradition. Resources. Talent base. They should always be a top five recruiting program and top five program. For them to go 6-6 or whatever it is this year is disgraceful.

    USC is the same way. Fun city, lot of tradition, star power, NFL history, resources and huge Cali talent base. For them to have to cheat for some reason with those advantages is also disgraceful.

    Alabama has to work harder. Per capita, Alabama produced a lot of football talent but it isn't Texas, Cali or Florida. Tuscaloosa - as much as I love the city - isn't Austin or LA although to some kids Tuscaloosa is just right. Geographically, it will never have the built-in advantages of a Texas or USC.

    Player development wise and work ethic on the recruiting trail, however, Alabama kicks both of their asses.

    Appreciate your opinion as always Shane , but must strongly disagree with
    you on several points ....

    1 - USC campus is a horrendous . More inner city . Not a campus type setting . The
    stands are never packed because of the pro teams , the coast , hollywood . There
    is something cool I suppose about going to the Whiskey Go Go and seeing some
    stars as opposed to The Hounds Tooth .

    2 - UCLA is a much prettier , campus type setting , not inner city . On a much larger
    level the USC campus is a lot like UAB . You don't know what is school and what
    is business .

    3 - The players are not " God Like " at USC like they are here .. No one is wantig
    their autographs .

    4 - Fun city . I disagree . The locals get out of there on weekends and go to Newport
    and Laguna Beach .. Take 30 minutes to drive a couple of miles.

    5 - Star Power .. Hollywood . Yes , they have all that , but they are second fiddle to
    the lakers . They riot win the Lakers win . Ho hum win USC does ..

    6 - Why did they cheat ? Mike Garrett , the AD was out of control . No compliance . How
    in the world did they get in all that trouble , then bring in Kiffin to right the ship ? Pat
    Hayden , the new AD hates Kiffen . If Kiffin doesn't produce next year , he will be gone .

    7 - The bottom line is you have to want it . They broke rules a thousand times worse
    than Bama ever did and they were arrogant . Pete Carrol is no where near Saban . He
    won 1000% from better talent , not better coaching . Same story . He couldn't have done
    that in the SEC.

    8- Pete Carroll brought OJ Simpson back to their practices . What do you think the guy
    was thinking ? What is that telling those kids ?

    9 - Totally agree with you on the Texas situation .

    10 - We are now recruiting nationwide like they did , re : Robert Foster .

    11 - I guarantee they will not survive the probation period without getting in more trouble
    so long as Kiffin is there .

    12 - I think if you check the all time record we are 5-2 against them . We have pretty
    well owned them ,

    13 - The one positive thing I can say is that Layla Kiffin is the best looking coaches
    wife in the country . I would bet money that Lane finds a way to screw that up too . Lots
    of stories from Knoxville never got reported ,,, ie , The Wrecked Cadillac night ..

    signature image

    .

    PhilBlake

  • Shane_BOL Staff said...

    I think Mark Richt is a solid coach and recruiter....but if they had a monster recruiter and exceptional coach (Saban, Meyer) then UGA would be dominating. Tremendous talent base. They have had nice seasons but not being in a NC game for 25 plus years for that program is embarrasing. They have underachieved relative to their natural resources.

    Georgia, Florida, USC, Texas, Ohio State are all A+ with respect to program sustaining natural resources. Alabama is more B+. Alabama, however, maximizes every ounce of their resources.

    Very interesting thread.

    I would have thought UA trumps UGA in tradition/history/name recognition and that plus the proximity to UGA's talent base would make UA superior to UGA in natural resources. Interesting to me that that's doesnt seem to be a factor that you think is significant.

    i also would have thought our proximity to talent regionally, if not in the state is equal to or better than OSU's, but you are clearly the expert on that .

    It just seems to me that Saban is in the perfect place to run his program. Extremely supportive administration, fanatical fanbase, access to talent, tradition rich program. Reminds me of the line in the movie Patton where the general is saying he is the perfect leader with the perfect army at the perfect time in history.

    Redwoodforest ●

  • @PhilBlake, yes that's the reality of USC perhaps, but the perception seems to be that it's beautiful Southern Cal sun and fun. And I have no doubt they sell that well. Plus it has much stronger football tradition than UCLA. And it doesn't hurt to have Will Ferrell and others there to hang out and party with those guys once in awhile. Recruiting at most places is about creating a perception that doesn't match reality. Heck, look no further than the Barn for the perfect example of that... good Christian folks... lots of fun/parties... and yet you're somehow going to beat teams like Bama and wind up in the League. Yeah, right.

    HighTide95

  • PhilBlake said...

    Appreciate your opinion as always Shane , but must strongly disagree with
    you on several points ....

    1 - USC campus is a horrendous . More inner city . Not a campus type setting . The
    stands are never packed because of the pro teams , the coast , hollywood . There
    is something cool I suppose about going to the Whiskey Go Go and seeing some
    stars as opposed to The Hounds Tooth .

    2 - UCLA is a much prettier , campus type setting , not inner city . On a much larger
    level the USC campus is a lot like UAB . You don't know what is school and what
    is business .

    3 - The players are not " God Like " at USC like they are here .. No one is wantig
    their autographs .

    4 - Fun city . I disagree . The locals get out of there on weekends and go to Newport
    and Laguna Beach .. Take 30 minutes to drive a couple of miles.

    5 - Star Power .. Hollywood . Yes , they have all that , but they are second fiddle to
    the lakers . They riot win the Lakers win . Ho hum win USC does ..

    6 - Why did they cheat ? Mike Garrett , the AD was out of control . No compliance . How
    in the world did they get in all that trouble , then bring in Kiffin to right the ship ? Pat
    Hayden , the new AD hates Kiffen . If Kiffin doesn't produce next year , he will be gone .

    7 - The bottom line is you have to want it . They broke rules a thousand times worse
    than Bama ever did and they were arrogant . Pete Carrol is no where near Saban . He
    won 1000% from better talent , not better coaching . Same story . He couldn't have done
    that in the SEC.

    8- Pete Carroll brought OJ Simpson back to their practices . What do you think the guy
    was thinking ? What is that telling those kids ?

    9 - Totally agree with you on the Texas situation .

    10 - We are now recruiting nationwide like they did , re : Robert Foster .

    11 - I guarantee they will not survive the probation period without getting in more trouble
    so long as Kiffin is there .

    12 - I think if you check the all time record we are 5-2 against them . We have pretty
    well owned them ,

    13 - The one positive thing I can say is that Layla Kiffin is the best looking coaches
    wife in the country . I would bet money that Lane finds a way to screw that up too . Lots
    of stories from Knoxville never got reported ,,, ie , The Wrecked Cadillac night ..

    Your perception of LA is going to be different than that if a 18 year old. The city holds an appeal to a lot of kids (not all - Nico Johnson for instance would have ran without looking back). Most kids don't care if UCLA is in a better part of town. USC has a much stronger appeal from NFL success to recent success on the field. And the biggie is the geographic advantage with a huge built in population base. Campus aesthetics is way down the list of what a kid looks for in a school.

    Follow me at http://twitter.com/#!/shaneyoungblood

    Shane_BOL Staff ●

  • Shane_BOL Staff said...

    Your perception of LA is going to be different than that if a 18 year old. The city holds an appeal to a lot of kids (not all - Nico Johnson for instance would have ran without looking back). Most kids don't care if UCLA is in a better part of town. USC has a much stronger appeal from NFL success to recent success on the field. And the biggie is the geographic advantage with a huge built in population base. Campus aesthetics is way down the list of what a kid looks for in a school.

    Shane,

    What does Clemson have that allows a good recruiter to take advantage. They have certainly recruited above their circumstances

    Fringe 99

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    Follow me at http://twitter.com/#!/shaneyoungblood

    Shane_BOL Staff ●

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    Fringe 99

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